Mark Neale’s resume in the film industry is extensive. Before turning to MotoGP, Neale worked with bands such as U2, Live, The Verve Pipe and Counting Crows. He also directed the 1999 documentary No Maps for These Territories, which profiled William Gibson. In 2003, Neale released his first MotoGP film, Faster. Since that time, he has released five more films—Faster & Faster (2004), The Doctor, the Tornado and the Kentucky Kid (2006), Charge (2011), Fastest (2011)—with his latest, Hitting the Apex, released earlier this year.
While MotoGP isn’t usually our beat, Neale’s journey from shorter pieces to high end, documentary style films is something many motocross video types aspire to. His latest work goes to another level with help from Brad Pitt (Pitt was a producer on Hitting the Apex and narrated the film). We recently talked to Neale about his experience, as well as advice for aspiring moto filmmakers.
[You can purchase Hitting the Apex on iTunes, or catch it across select North American theaters. Visit www.hittingtheapexmovie.com for more information.]
Racer X: I’ve heard that Brad Pitt is a big MotoGP fan, but how in the world did you end up working with him on this? How did the project come together?
Mark Neale: I wanted to make it [a new film] as soon as I finished the last film I made, which was Fastest in 2011. I thought, Next time I really want to find a very good producer to work with, and who could that be? There’s nobody I can think of better than Brad Pitt. I wanted to see if I could make a better film, it’s as simple as that. I got in touch with his company and I wrote to them and explained about the project. In August 2012 Brad said that he was interested and from that point on he was kind of following my progress. But that’s how long it took. From thinking about getting Brad Pitt to actually being in the room with him took two years. I was in the room with him and basically working with him to finish the film from December of last year. And at that point we’d shot nearly everything. It’s obviously not easy to get somebody like that involved, but he saw what I was doing, he saw a rough cut of the film. His company was in touch with me while I was working on it. And then they got seriously involved at the end of last year. I carried on everything from January through until May and he was at the edit most days when he was in town. That was a lot of days.
What was it like working with him?
Basically you have to forget who he is, otherwise you’re just star-struck. He’s obviously aware of the effect that he has on people, but with me it was kind of easy because I wasn’t really looking at him, I was looking at the screen, and that makes it easier. You basically have to forget that it’s Brad Pitt and just work with another person who is a very good filmmaker and who understands what you’re doing, and also who loves the sport.
Probably easier said than done.
Honestly, what made it not easy was just the fact that I knew every day I would have a few minutes, or in some cases a few hours with him, and we had to finish the film. So it was just work. It wasn’t trying to make small talk, he wasn’t coming in to talk about the weather or whatever, we were there to work, and that was it. It wasn’t all business. There would always be the occasional beer and stuff but it was 90 percent business. He was so into it. That made it exciting, to be with somebody like that who just wants to make it better, and who’s pushing you but who’s on your side.
Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into covering MotoGP and how you got into filmmaking.
The job I’ve been doing over the last fifteen years… I’ve made five of these films. So that job’s open to anybody. I saw a gap in the market for this kind of film, so I went after it. It was through meeting people who were involved that I got into MotoGP. Before that I came to live in America in 1998, because I was mostly directing music videos then, and I worked with some quite big bands like U2 and The Verve Pipe and Live. But then I was looking to do different things and this is something I love. I’ve always loved racing motorcycles. I’ve always ridden bikes. I grew up next to a racetrack in the country in the south of England. So from when I was eight years old I was hanging out at a racetrack. This was an opportunity to combine all those things. Having a background in music and music videos is another thing that I kind of draw on heavily. The music is very important in the films. Everybody uses music in films but I particularly like that part of it. So these movies are a way of combining my skills. And the other weird coincidence is that I went and lived in Barcelona for three years in the mid ‘80s, so I learned Spanish and I learned Catalan. And the sport is run in Barcelona. They’re not just Spanish, but they’re basically Catalans who run MotoGP. So if you speak their language, that’s been a big help.
From the outside, MotoGP riders seem to be very protective and tow the company line when needed, but in other cases they seem very open and can even engage in some trash talk or whatever. How hard was it to get them to open up for this documentary?
I would say it’s becoming harder to get them away from their handlers and their teams. That’s something that you have to do. So once you’re talking to them away from the track or in a situation like in a car where there’s no managers there or whoever, it’s easier. But it involves a lot of hanging around at tracks and it involves a lot of kind of scheming and planning to get somewhere else to talk to them. So it’s tough. I think the ones with strong personalities are not afraid to talk openly. In general they have got strong personalities. They’ve all got their agendas so it’s a really big part of it, that’s all I can say. It’s figuring out how to talk to them, when to talk to them, and how to push them to open up. I don’t know any particular kind of secrets on how to do it but persistence is the thing. A lot of it is just being really kind of stubborn and just spending a lot of time and everything. Plus, most of them have seen the other films so in general they like what I’ve done before, so that helps.
It’s that line: pushing it, crossing it a bit, getting away with it, and sometimes not getting away with it.
The six riders that are featured in this film—Jorge Lorenzo, Marc Marquez, Dani Pedrosa, Casey Stoner, Valentino Rossi and Marco Simoncelli —their backgrounds differ a lot from one another, as well as their personalities. How important was it for you to capture that?
I think the relationship between fathers and sons is obviously a very simple dimension that makes it accessible to people in general. So the fact that Paolo Simoncelli and Marco Simoncelli were so close that he [the father] went to every single race that Marco ever did, made that a very obvious, but strong storyline. The fathers and the sons idea obviously applies to Valentino Rossi and to Marc Marquez as well. Basically you’re always looking for a way in to each character’s story. The family is obviously something everybody can kind of relate to. So that was a starting point. I didn’t do it with Stoner because I couldn’t, but Stoner gave us a lot of his time. Casey was the one guy that I interviewed together with Brad Pitt because we both wanted to know more about why he quit and what was going on. So that was the last thing we filmed. In February of this year we did a Skype interview with Casey. It was me and Brad talking to him. That was pretty bizarre for me. I’ve got to say, that was the one situation where I felt like I was hallucinating. Here’s Brad Pitt talking to Casey Stoner on a computer! It was crazy!
The guy you want to hear most from is the rider. And then the people around them who are close to them all give you a different point of view. The team managers will give you interesting comments but you’ve got to hear from the dad or the mom as well. It starts to feel real and it starts to feel true when you've got at least two or three different points of view on a given person or subject. Dani Pedrosa is interesting because he’s so kind of self-contained. I didn’t include his dad or his family because in the end it didn’t feel necessary. It felt like with some of them you want to show the family stuff more. Paolo Simoncelli’s the obvious example. But Dani, what I felt about him, he’s such a strong and intelligent and philosophical person, and he communicated very well just for himself. So each of them is different.
You did cover the death of Marco heavily with different angles—with his father and the riders. How difficult was that to get? Did you have a point of reference going into it, how you wanted to form the story?
Obviously it’s there at the beginning because when we started making the film Marco was already dead. The last film went up until the end of 2010; this one was going to cover 2011 and ’12 and ’13. So I knew going in that I had to deal with that. I didn’t know exactly how, but the most important thing was to talk through it with the people closest to it, which means Marco’s father, Paolo, and obviously Colin Edwards and Valentino Rossi who were directly involved in the accident. And then what you show and how much of it you show really came from showing it to other people. The overall challenge was to explain it enough without showing it to an awfully graphic degree. You can’t just show it once and bang and it’s gone. Most people would then say, what happened? Why did he crash? Why did he fall in front of the other riders? So I just feel like you had to explain it but then you had to keep it as limited as you could. I edited that probably ten different ways. There’s a lot more to it than just showing what happened. It’s to do with the emotional impact of it, trying to in some way communicate what it felt like without being over the top about it. So, for example, what the music does there and the sound does is obviously very calculated. But it was horrible to do. It was horrible to edit. It was horrible talking to Paolo. He can’t talk anymore because he was starting to cry. It’s really difficult.
As a filmmaker do you have people that are close to you that you run this stuff through just to get a different perspective on it?
Yeah, in the first place there’s obviously Brad Pitt and there were three other producers at his company, two women and one man. None of them knew the sport. Brad knows the sport but the others didn’t. So they didn’t understand, but in general that’s the kind of thing that I like to do. I show it to my wife’s friends, women, housewives in Los Angeles who haven’t got a clue. Then you show it to a few other friends. But mostly it does come down to me and Brad and there’s always another editor, or nearly always. I do a lot of the editing myself but there’s always another editor as well. A lot of it you just know what works as a film. So there’s no committee decision. You have to decide for yourself in the end.
In our industry, there’s a lot of aspiring filmmakers out there. Can you explain how this process comes together, when you’re committing this much time and this much effort into a documentary?
In the first place, I always want to do something better than what I’ve done before. With this one, I went to more of an extreme than ever of taking a really long time editing. The big thing with this is the amount of time I spent editing. I haven’t added it up but I was like 500 days, 500 ten-hour days, 5,000 hours editing. And probably half of that was on my own. So you’ve got to be able to do that. That’s a huge part of it. MTV wanted to do a series about Nicky Hayden a few years ago. It was going to be a big deal. It was going to be like a Nitro Circus kind of idea but it was MotoGP and Nicky Hayden and it was the year after he won the world championship. Apart from the fact that his year wasn’t very good, somebody told me they shot over 1,000 hours of material and they just completely lost control of it in the edit. So the first thing is you’ve got to be able to edit and you’ve got to be able to work with huge amounts of material. This is made from over 600 hours of material. A ton of it I have extracted from MotoGP’s archives. So that’s a huge part of it. Then there’s the filming of it, which these days you can do so much cool stuff. You can shoot action and slow motion way better than when I started 15 years ago when I made Faster. Obviously the other big thing is how much time and money do you want to spend on it relative to what you expect to make from it at the end? And that’s the hardest thing. It’s taken me 15 years to kind of build up an audience and be confident that this one will at least pay for itself. So there’s no simple answer. I think what’s enticing about it is what you can do. If you’ve got a camera and a computer to edit with you can make great stuff and that’s very exciting. But how you make that into a two-hour movie, that’s difficult. You’ve got to have a good story to make a long film.
These guys are not playing with their lives, per se, but there’s an aspect of danger. You’re going 200 something miles an hour. How did you focus on getting that and capturing that? Was that an important aspect, especially for the people who may not follow it as closely as others?
I found myself thinking more and more what this film is about. It’s about the education of a world champion in this particular sport. It’s not completely obvious but it starts with a little kid, you see some of the riders as kids. And then you see them by the end as world champions. Going from the little kid who’s going 20 or 40 miles an hour to the dude that’s doing 240 miles an hour obviously involves serious danger. So the little mini moto bike is this sort of gateway drug that leads to the full power, full speed stuff. And there is that element to it. It’s very addictive and it’s very intoxicating, and that’s why people do it. It’s not the only reason they do it, but it’s why it’s a thrill and it’s a huge rush. That’s why a lot of people watch it. Not because you want to see people get hurt, but because it’s kind of unbelievable that people can do that and survive. So it’s kind of fascinating. And then the heart of it became that, the fire or the passion in people to do this and to go that fast and take those risks. And then there’s a great big sport that’s trying to make money, keep people alive, and sort of be relatively safe, when they all know that it’s dangerous. But you’ve got what is the MotoGP world and the people who make the rules trying to keep the guys safe. But what we all really want is the guys to go as fast as possible and when it’s scary it’s more exciting. It’s that line: pushing it, crossing it a bit, getting away with it, and sometimes not getting away with it.
Do you have any advice for the guys that are doing short films now and have an interest in doing some longer stuff?
I think the one thing that I’ve learned as I go along, and this is really quite boring at times, but it’s just to really know your equipment and know the technology very well. Ultimately it really matters how well you record sound. It really matters that you compose pictures well. I’ve always been kind of a bit backward about that. I was like, it’s the story and the action. And I’ve learned more and more how to do it right. Every bit of preparation pays off. Just be very methodical and careful when you’re doing it, especially if it’s something dangerous. Obviously at a MotoGP track it’s as well-controlled as it can be but still you find yourself doing stuff at Rossi’s dirt track or with somebody somewhere else where you can sort of do what you want and it’s very easy to get in trouble.
We shot for 54 days. We probably shot somewhere north of 300 hours. There’s another probably 300 hours of material taken from literally thousands of hours [of DORNA’s MotoGP footage]. So I spent three weeks just editing from DORNA from MotoGP material. If you’re making a longer film it’s just a longer haul and you have to do long days, you’ve got to do everything from there right through to the end. With this one I spent a lot of time on the soundtrack and mixing it. In the end you want it to kind of look easy. It should flow. But to make it look easy is really hard. Some people will find that they love doing it and some people will find it really boring. I think people work out pretty quick if it’s for them or not. You have to love it really to do it.