The Breakdown: Corners
Thursday, March 8, 2012 | 6:40 PM
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PrintBy: Gary Semics
[Photos: Simon Cudby]
Ryan Dungey has a fantastic riding style and great techniques, but I believe if the trained eye looks hard enough it can usually find places to improve. At Ryan's level, his style and even his techniques are programmed into his nervous system's automatic reflex reactions so deeply from many hours of repeated practice that they fire off naturally. In order for Ryan to change a technique, he would have to overwrite the old habit by replacing it with a new one. The only way to do this is to run the new program through repetition long enough to replace the old. At first this reprogramming slows you down, and practicing a new technique can take weeks to make it happen naturally under race conditions. It's not something to do during race season.
That being said, this photo shows one of the areas Ryan could improve on. I have seen Ryan other times get his upper body out of the center of balance by rotating his shoulders toward the outside of the corner and leaning his upper body too far to the outside. He does this to correct the mistake of not leaning the bike over far enough in the first place. He then compensates by pushing the bike over farther, but doing that takes him out of the center of balance.
Sorry, Ryan, but I have another one. There are two basic positions for your back. The straight back (Strong Back) and the crouched back (Low CG Back). RD is all straight back. I have never seen him ride with a crouched back. The Strong Back is great for getting your body position up over the front of the bike, but not so good when your body position is in the middle or back a little farther. Not only should the strong back be used when in the forward body position, but also through the whoops, G-outs, and over big bumps. You have a lot more strength when your back is straight (try doing heavy barbell squats with a crouched back). Both of these back positions are used sitting and standing.
When you want more traction in a corner, it's better to have a crouched back. This lowers your bike and body's center of gravity for more traction and control in the corner. In the photo of Ryan Villopoto, you can notice he has a crouched back. He's also using a cushion berm in this corner. The combo of the low CG and cushion berm allow RV to lay the bike way over and give the big-bore all the berries. If you notice RV's back when he’s riding, you'll see he uses each back position on different parts of the track.
In the left photo of Justin Barcia you can see he has one finger on the front brake and one on the clutch. That's because he still hasn't reached the most important part of the corner: the transition, where you go from braking to accelerating. At the transition, Justin will control the throttle and let his finger off the front brake. He already has a finger on the clutch so he can deliver the exact power he wants to the rear wheel. In the right photo, Justin has gone through the transition. You can see he is off the front brake and on the throttle. He still has a finger on the clutch.
Even on four-strokes, these guys usually use the clutch and throttle together at the transition. At these points it only takes a quick nip of the clutch to get it done. Once through the transition, the finger stays on the clutch in case they want to cut the power to the rear wheel—if, for instance, the bike starts to stand up and/or climb out of a berm. Cutting the power with the clutch instead of the throttle works much more quickly and precisely. This is done with one or more quick little nips of the clutch—not disengaging it for much time at all, just enough to keep the bike down in the corner without losing much time.
There are two categories of techniques where control comes from. One is your body movements, always moving in order to maintain the center of balance. The other is comprised of the five controls of the M/C, clutch, throttle, front and rear bakes, and the gearshift. Beginner riders don't understand how much of your control comes from the five controls.
On the way into a corner I'd say about 60 percent of your control comes from the front and rear brakes and the other 40 percent from your body movements. At the transition, 60 percent control can come from a combination of the front and/or rear brake and the clutch and throttle at the same time. Sometimes braking and accelerating will overlap, meaning you're doing a little of both at the same time. They should always at least connect, meaning you go from braking straight to accelerating, never coasting. You wouldn't want to give up 60 percent of your control, would you? Once through the transition and exiting the corner, 60 percent of your control comes from the clutch and throttle and the other 40 percent from your body movements.
The right combo of the controls with the proper timing and finesse make the bike handle a certain way. To the top pros, the precise timing and finesse of these five controls are as natural and automatic as working their hands and feet. They are a part of their body and nervous system. In milliseconds, they feel what is needed, as it’s needed. That's how they make something that is so difficult look so easy.
I hope you enjoyed my first article in The Breakdown. For more riding tips, free MX Technique DVD previews, and to order online, visit www.garysemics.com.
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What a good read, this was great.. Everybody always says RV's the fastest out of the corners. I guess now we know one reason why, technique..
Fan of both Ryans, want RV to win this title.MATT, I totally agree about the form in the photos, straight back vs crouched back etc.
There has been a lot of talk on these baords of late about form/style, comparing the Ryan's. One thing I never hear brought up is the fact that RD is what 4 or 5 "s taller than RV. There styles are never going to look the same on the bike.
I love how it looks like RV is always charging, always attacking, always head forward. It just seems like it would naturally be easier to assume those positions for a shorter rider. Thus RC always looked the same and who always got the looks smooth, perfect form , makes it looks so effortless moniker???? K-DUB!!
I am thinking a certain stature allows for certain extremes in style one way or the other. It is pretty cool that through style and getting the needed weight in the right spot, riders of completely different physical makes up can achieve the same results.
Some just achieve them more often then others.....Go RV!
My apologies Gary! I assumed it was Matt Walker analyzing, great stuff.
I like RV's cornering ability, he definitely has the best cornering speed this year, he controls from the back of the bike somehow and gets that traction down, his cornering prowess is equal with RC in my opinion they just explode out of corners.
Now i know why Technique
Im calling it right now JS7 wins daytona
Red54m mentioned the height disparity between the two Ryans. Some of the most fluid, effortless looking riders have been beanpoles. D. Bailey, R. Lechein, Windham, etc. The counterpoint to that is the munchkins like J. Ward & GOAT. I won't argue any technique RC used but dang, I very much wanted to emulate Bailey & Lechien's style. Doggers' standing up in corners was always very interesting to me and seemed to serve him quite well.......now G.S. is going to dispel that idea probably, crud.
What a great read, and shows how much goes into this sport! I was listening to dmxs while Reed was talking about his crash and what happend. I had to watch the film again to see if it was true. Reed said when he came off he knew he had hit a bad line. While he was in the air he actually shifted up to 3rd and reved the hell out of the bike to try and get more wheel spin to bring the front end up. It is unreal how much talent these guys have and what they can calculate and adjust within factions of a second. Great read Gary!
Great article, keep them coming!
I'm 6'0 and my style seems to be more like Dungeys on my most recent bike. I believe it's cause I over compensating for a poor setup.
Hey General,
I have to disagree with the assessment of Dungey's form on that particular corner. On a flat, slick sweeper with no berm, I think Dungey's form is pretty on point. Just saying...
DLWOOD...you beat me to the call...I find it interesting that Dungey is in a flat corner weighting the outside peg, butt half off the seat textbook style...and Villopoto is square on the seat in a bowl turn...I've also seen Dungey ride crouched back attacking
Hey Semics I don't think these 3 guys care what you say, they're winners. Now try the lappers.
Damn, RV looks like he is hauling.
Sorry Gary, but Im crying fowl on your article. Dungey has proper form, considering he is on the FLATS with no elevation change to plant his rear tire in. Objective on flats is to transfer weight to the outside of the bike to move center of gravity outward, allowing the bike to corner at higher riding angle. The higher angle provides for better traction. Also, if the bike slips any, and Dungey is NOT on the outside of the bike, he will wash out. The other riders are in bowl turns. Post a pic of Dungey in a bowl turn out the outside and I might consider your comments. Consider the opposite, to accelerate hard in a bowl turn, a rider must place his weight on the inside of the bike, forcing it down and into the bowl.
Gotta' back up a couple of the comments here. I swear that in one of your videos you talked about keeping the upper body at a 90 degree angle to the ground (at the tire track) through a corner. Flat corner is going to look like Dungey, bowl turn or burm/deep rut is going to look like RV. The reason this stuck with me is that it was easy to visualize in any turn what I needed be doing with my upper body (and it really helped). I will say that you said for Dungey "to far outside" and also commented on the shoulders. Those comments might be valid, but I think you have overall left the wrong impression regarding this aspect.
Semics had a great, smooth style back in the day. Saw him ride several times in the midwest, (mostly @ Red Bud); always impressive. Bikes and tracks were a lot different then, but to bag on him is stupid and childish.
The crouched back approach was displayed often by guys like Roger DeCoster & Marty Smith to name two... Hannah used some of both (crouched & strong positioning) at times, depending on how good (or bad) the bike he was riding was handling.
By the way, some of the guys whom have benefitted from Semics' instruction early in their careers include Lamson, Lusk, Hepler and some unknowns by the name of McGrath and Villopoto...
Bum, ... Zero cred.? Anyone calling Semic out is a bum.
You musta' flunked out of his MX clinic.
KW said RV has the best corner speed he has ever seen, and that he has raced the best.
I pretty much do not care what anyone else has to say on the topic. KW says RV is the best, then I accept that.
Great read Gary. Glad to have you on board and participating in the Breakdown.
The rest of you may also be interested in an article over on Virtual Trainer that Gary Bailey posted today. It's on sitting, standing, and leg position in a corner. If you like rider analysis similar to this article, check it out.
http://www.racerxvt.com/article/trackside-sit-stand-and-leg-position
Great read..... I believe RV1's corner speed comes from how EARLY he gets back on the throttle and rearsteers out of the corner, You see him wheelie the last half of the corner alot. @cxd56 If you weren't being sarcastic you do know you DON'T have to read the article if you don't like it or who wrote it. I think there kind off interesting and a break from JS7 stalkers.
Liked the piece about clutch to stop the bike from standing up.......I thought throttle and angle keeps you in the sweet spot.
Question.........how and why is the clutched use in whoops ?
JimM
Pala 374
I agree Dungeys form was off...i like the guy....but he needs to review some KDub tapes, ass off the seat an inch or two, leg squeeze, weight outer peg.
I have found my riding style a combo of RV/RD. i'm 6'2" and its just funky feeling having a straight back through whoops, same for a strong back in the forward position at my height. It feels like your weighting the front end too much and off balance. So i've found, (given my height) that the straight/strong back isn't nearly as comfortable. Can tend to make the ass end squirrely, which with clutch/throttle control can be stabilized, but i don't like letting off!!
Go RV1
You use the clutch in the whoops just incase that rear tire grabs a big bite and tries to plant your front tire in the trough of the next whoop. aka, no endo.
and to the first post about my style being a combo of theirs, i failed to mention about 3/4 their speed
scared the sh.t out of my the first time i commited 4th pinned through a 130' whoop section, lost my focus and wheelied off the last one into a switchback..cut the track straight into a triple. Landed it, kept cruising...won by 23 seconds, but damn i thought i was screwed for about 3 seconds
Very cool read.
Mr. Semics knows his stuff.
Interesting stuff but Mr. Semic, like 99% of fans and people in Motocross don't take into account the changes Dungey has had to go through the last couple years. Check out old podium pictures from a couple years ago. The kid actually grew a couple inches in his late teens.(I did that myself). But even more importantly, look at Dungey's old videos and photos on the Suzuki(Not last years 2011 but 2010 and prior). You'll notice how different he is in corners and how much better he is in the whoops. He is getting more comfortable on the KTM but not quite there yet. Here is a good video to remind us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO721JpytLo&feature=endscreen&NR=1
As for RV, well you talk about consistent, that guy has road the same way as long as I can remember and I think it might work for him someday.... :)
Hey cxd56 your are a fool. Gary has a lot of credit, you must be new to this sport or just dumb. Gary had been around for a long long time and KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. Hell he even trained Jeremy at one point. If Jeremy thinks he has something to offer( and he does) that says something.
@someguy cool story...
Wasn't so cool when i was dodging flagger stands and praying i had the speed to hit the triple. Worked nicely though.
tonewall nailed it here; "I believe RV1's corner speed comes from how EARLY he gets back on the throttle and rearsteers out of the corner, You see him wheelie the last half of the corner alot."
I watched St. Louis in person and noted in the typical corner RV was on the gas sooner by a foot or more (could tell by the roost). Those tenths of second every corner add up.
then replace plates & fibers $$$$$
Semics forgot to tell us RD is riding with a broken collar bone. He looks pretty good with a bone broke!