Observations: St. Louis
Tuesday, March 5, 2013 | 4:15 PM
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The 2013 Monster Energy Supercross Championship is heating up folks! You know it’s getting down to the wire when the teams are all complaining about each other, the entourages are starting to whisper things to the media about other riders and in general, people are on edge. It’s nothing new. I’ve been in this series, either as a mechanic on a team going for the title or as a media guy covering it, for a long time and this is as predictable as the sun coming up tomorrow. People are incredibly biased and slanted toward “their” guy and now that the series is half over, expect more and more nuttiness as we move toward the final round Las Vegas.
Last week I spent about 2000 words ranting and raving about the tracks this year so I’ll spare you readers the same ranting and raving. Just know this, there isn’t really anyone happy in the pits about them, including the winners. This week in St Louis the track had potential, and it also had what St Louis always has, which is sweet, sweet dirt. The whoops were pretty long and challenging until the crew rolled them basically flat for the night show. That effectively took them out of the running for any kind of challenge whatsoever. So yeah, good job on that one guys. The sand was divided into two sections and although everyone was just taking the one smoother line in practice, it might have been useful to see how it turned out. But nope, in between the second and third practices, the whoops were taken out of the sand and the section was made completely one lined so yeah, another epic failure there.
Villopoto's win had it all, and then some.
Cudby photo
And by the way, the modifications to the sand section made the second practice (the first timed one) completely irrelevant so heaven help you if you had some bike problems or a crash in the third practice, because your second practice time was not going to hold up. I don’t know how many times I’ve stated that you shouldn't make major track mods between practices. It’s not fair but they continue to do it. It’s amazing really that the competitive aspect of the sport is just washed away by the need to make a track change. I simply don’t get it.
Anyway, the race itself was saved by the quality of the dirt. The racers could stop inside and cut down on a rider, they could rail turns wide open and they could place the bike where they wanted. All because of the incredible dirt that St Louis has always offered. The racing was great despite the track design and the modifications that hurt it, but the dirt overcame all to give us some great racing and for that, we thank the dirt gods.
After criticizing the tracks the past few weeks, Ryan Villopoto mentioned that he couldn’t wait until St Louis because he knew that there, the dirt would be primo, enabling him to let it loose. And that’s basically exactly what happened. Villopoto’s throttle-happy right hand was able to move and the dirt held up to his throttle being pinned. The traction was there for RV and he showed that when it is, he’s the best guy out there. His ride in St Louis was epic as he went from around sixth in the opening laps to third, got docked three spots when there was another single-file restart, then came from sixth after that restart to the lead and a resounding victory. You could see from the very first practice that Villopoto was happy as his Kawasaki just exploded berms left and right. That’s his series' leading fourth win of the year and combined with Davi Millsaps’ worst night of the series, pulls him to within 12 points of the lead.
Villopoto was quick to credit a triple clamp offset change he made during the week in Florida as a reason why his bike worked better for him. It’s weird, back in the day it was almost always the rake that was changed with offset races (this is where the front wheel is tucked in closer to the frame) but since four strokes have come onto the scene it’s almost always a change in the offset of where the stem is located in the triple clamps which keeps the rake the same but changes the trail- the footprint of the front tire. It’s a small change (I couldn’t find out if Villopoto went in or out with the offset but I’m guessing he went in), but one that RV liked. He credited the change in a few interviews as a big reason why he won but if you ask me, it was the simple fact that the dirt was perfect for him.
Stewart didn't win this time, but once again, he looked strong. The hobbled Stewart from the first few rounds has left the building.
Cudby photo
The controversy I spoke of up top was in the form of Villopoto passing James Stewart for the lead where Bobby Kiniry was down. The riders were forced to roll the triple (red light was on) and then there was a series of rollers after the triple. Villopoto gained some ground on Stewart in the area where the red light was, then continued when they got to the red cross flag was and then passed him under yellow as Stewart got a bit too much air while trying to go slow. Villopoto scrubbed it a bit and made the pass under yellow flags, not the red cross flag. There are a few different thoughts on this. First, the red cross flag shouldn’t have been out in the first place as Kiniry was up on his bike and getting ready to get back into the race. Yes there were some Asterisk guys out there but they were done with Kiniry. To be honest, I’m not even sure why the red cross flag was out in the first place.
After reviewing the tape, the AMA decided that Villopoto passed after the red cross danger area and that it was all legal. The cries of protest were coming from people who thought that RV made up a little too much ground in the red cross area (he did but why would you penalize him just because he was faster at going slower than Stewart?) and that he had already been docked before the restart for doubling a triple and getting past Mike Alessi. He was moved back three spots for that move, but people weren’t happy with this, they wanted a pound of flesh from Villopoto for his “dangerous” moves. I think the AMA handled it perfectly both times, but had the race not been restarted, it would have been interesting to see what the AMA would have done with Villopoto’s move past Alessi but we’ll never know. Do I think he would’ve been docked three spots? Nope, not one bit because know this about the AMA/FIM/Feld and whomever else is running this sport: they DO NOT want to affect the outcome of this series in any manner whatsoever. Like it or hate it, that’s a fact right there. And oh yeah, there’s one more thing that I know: red cross flags, yellow flags, restarts and whatever else you want to bring up, there’s no doubt that Villopoto was the fastest man in St Louis last Saturday night. He was on it!
James Stewart is back! After his win last weekend Stewart grabbed the lead early and led for half the race. He looked good in doing this and although RV caught and passed him, it wasn’t a case of Stewart not riding well, it was just a case of Villopoto riding great. I really don’t think there was any stopping Villopoto on Saturday night, yellow flags or not, but I do know that the next time Stewart has to ride through an area where the flags are going, he’ll pick it up a little quicker and focus a little more on going faster while trying to go slower, if you know what I mean. A win and a second in the last two weeks indicates that he’s clearly feeling much better these days.
This weekend in Daytona is going to be epic. Stewart, Chad Reed and Villopoto all have two wins apiece at the Speedway. Villopoto will be stoked on the ability to once again let it hang out a bit more, Stewart will be his usual excellent self at Daytona, where he can let his improvisational skills shine through by making jumps out of the braking bumps, and Reed’s always been great there too. This weekend should be an excellent race, no doubt about it.
Chad Reed went back to his fork from last year for this race (and last race at Atlanta also, from what my sources say) and it paid off with a third place. I don’t think it was the fork switch so much as it was the dirt switch but hey, whatever works for the two-two. Reed was very good at St Louis as he held off Ryan Dungey for the last spot on the podium and even tried to stick it in on Stewart in a couple of spots. The Aussie hero hasn’t been a happy camper for most of the year and I’m sure this podium helps out. If there’s anyone out there screaming for St Louis and Daytona, it’s been Reed. At least he backed up that his riding would get better when the tracks allowed it.
Reed has been saying he'd like his old forks and some better dirt and he'd be more like his old self. And look! A podium!
Cudby photo
I wrote last week that I thought St Louis was a must-win for Dean Wilson and was chastised for it because it was only the third round of a nine-race series. Was it really a must win? Well, yeah it kind of was because Dean Wilson is supposed to be the man in this series and when you’re the man, you can lose once, but if you lose twice, your competition starts to think they have a chance, which is exactly what is happening as Wil Hahn rode a great race to win his second main in a row and take the points lead away from Wilson. Wilson’s starts were terrible and it cost him the win in St Louis as he was faster than Hahn in ten out of the fifteen laps. When you’re buried off the start, you’re done. Dean admitted after the race that he was a bit winded from all the work to catch up to Hahn, but either way, he caught Hahn, made a pass for the lead and then saw Hahn pull away a tad for the win.
If you’re Wil Hahn you’re waking up on Sunday morning saying, “Eff that dude, I can beat him!” Confidence is a very dangerous thing. Wilson would have been better to have run out of time in St Louis because then he can tell himself that he was on the way to passing Hahn before the checkers flew. The fact that he caught Hahn and couldn't make the pass hurts him and helps out Hahn. I’m telling you guys, this sport is so mental at this level it’s not even funny.
It should be noted that Hahn’s fitness level was very good; he recorded his fastest lap on the fourteenth lap when Wilson got on him. It’s pretty hard to ride one pace for thirteen laps and then pick it up like that when you have to go faster late in a race. Good job by Wilbur who dedicated his win to Ridgeline owners everywhere. What? He actually didn’t and I just made that up? Oh.
Let’s take a look at the results shall we?
We've got a real title fight on our hands here, but Dean-O and Wilbur are good dudes, so they're keeping it respectful.
Cudby photo
250SX Main
1. William Hahn Decatur, TX Honda CRF 250
2. Dean Wilson Wesley Chapel, FL Kawasaki KX 250F
3. Blake Wharton Pilot Point, TX Suzuki RM-Z250- Wharton was pretty good this weekend. He won his heat and stayed ahead of everyone else but didn’t have anything for the top two guys. Still, a third is a third. Nice ride for the former St. Louis winner.
4. Marvin Musquin Corona, CA KTM 250 SX-F- Uh, hey Marvin- you might want to start getting into this series and start making your mark. Those front two dudes are getting away here.
5. Jeremy Martin Millville, MN Yamaha YZ250F- Martin was great this weekend as he came from outside the top ten to a fifth. I said it before and I’ll say it again: I can’t believe he didn’t make the main the first week with his speed. If there’s anyone capable of breaking up the Wilson/Hahn/Wharton/Musquin podium potential, it’s Martin.
6. Vince Friese Cape Girardeau, MO Honda CRF 250
7. James Decotis Peabody, MA Honda CRF 250- Decotis had a quiet race. He’s yet to really have that breakout ride and be out front but after a complete year off due to injury, this is pretty good for the rippah.
8. Cole Thompson Brigden, Canada Honda CRF 250- Thompson had an ugly over-the-bars crash in practice that got him carted off. I honestly didn’t think we’d see him again, but there he was in the main, coming from way back to a career high eighth place. All things considered, this was a great race for the Canadian.
9. Zachary Bell Cairo, GA Honda CRF 250- Bell had to go to the LCQ after he stalled in his heat race. But he won the LCQ (although he crashed after the finish- I swear I didn’t make that up) and rode a steady race in the main event. A steady race is what Bell and GEICO Honda should take for now as he gets his feet wet in supercross.
10. Peter Larsen Menifee, CA Honda CRF250- This is actually PJ Larsen and he wasn’t on a Honda, he was on an Eleven10 Mods Yamaha. But this is what the results say. And although he had bike problems and barely made it into the forty-man night show, in the main he rode well to this finish, all things considered. He’ll get better as the series progresses.
11. Gavin Faith Fort Dodge, IA Honda CRF 250- Faith ran as high as sixth in the main before dropping back to eleventh. Weird deal, not sure what was wrong, if anything.
12. Zackery Freeberg Riverview, FL Honda CRF 250
13. A J Catanzaro Portland, CT Kawasaki KX 250F- Second main event of the year for Catanzaro, who looked great in practice. I was asked for a fantasy sleeper this week and I blurted out AJ’s name. I was then informed that he’s a fantasy killer and is not to be picked. Well, I’d say this finish makes him look pretty good.
14. Kyle Hussey Foristell, MO Kawasaki KX 250F
15. Mitchell Oldenburg Alvord, TX Honda CRF 250- I don’t know much about this guy other than he’s from Minnesota and that his parents own a track in Texas. What I do know is that he’s made all three main events and is the first guy that most fans wouldn’t know much about. He’s doing well to be thirteenth in the points.
16.Justin Hill Yoncalla, OR Kawasaki KX 250F- Hill’s race was ruined early on when he crashed in the main. From there it was an uphill battle the rest of the way, but he did show some speed in the heat race.
17. Levi Kilbarger Logan, OH Honda CRF 250
18. Daniel Herrlein Bethesda, OH Honda CRF 250
19. Lance Vincent Youngsville, LA KTM 250 SX-F- Lance Vincent is a starting machine, I’d like to see some sort of reality TV show where he, Zach Bell and Mike Alessi all do starts next to each other with the last place guy being voted off by Donnie “Holeshot” Hansen. Donnie’s kid Josh can work craft services. I’m kidding people.
20. Shawn Rife Mechanicsburg, OH Honda CRF 250- Rife’s fast, and there’s no doubt that the kid has skills. But I’d love to see what his races started to DNF ratio is because it seems that time and time again, he cannot finish mains or motos.
Cole Thompson is certainly showing some toughness.
Cudby photo
450SX Main Event
1. Ryan Villopoto Seattle, WA Kawasaki KX 450F
2. James Stewart Haines City, FL Suzuki RM-Z450
3. Chad Reed Dade City, FL Honda CRF 450- Reed started on the very inside gate and I was not a fan. Luckily for him, it worked out, but you’re playing with fire when you do that, people!
4. Ryan Dungey Belle Plaine, MN KTM 450 SX-F- Dungey had a quiet race as he got passed by a couple of guys and passed a couple himself. Ryan’s also fortunate that the whoops got steamrolled for the night show as I didn’t think his bike looked very good through them in practice. He had a couple of moments in them,bBut as it is, The Dunge is third in the points and is his usual consistent self.
5. Justin Barcia Pinetta, FL Honda CRF 450- Just one mistake is all it takes in this class and you go from second to fifth. That’s what happened to Bam Bam out there, who looked very fast all day. You could actually make a case for Justin being the second best rider in St Louis last Saturday night. He kept Villopoto honest the entire heat race (they were a country mile ahead of third) and in the main he was right there until that one mistake.
6. David Millsaps Murrieta, CA Suzuki RM-Z450- Davi’s worst race of the year and his starts let him down this week. Millsaps was fast but he wasn’t able to rip through the pack and that cost him. Still, he’s the points leader and I’d say that one bad race (based on how consistent he's been this year) is nothing to panic about.
7. Mike Alessi Hilliard, FL Suzuki RM-Z450- Mike had a great race. He holeshot, later repassed Justin Barcia for second, ran up front and led a lap. Alessi’s been busy digging himself out of two DNF’s to start the year but he’s getting closer to the top ten in points. Early on Mike led and Stewart was second, which meant that the American amateur motocross system was working fine as those two accounted for 70 percent of all amateur titles won in the decade of 1990-2000.
8. Trey Canard Shawnee, OK Honda CRF 450- Canard is sort of in a slump but hey, he’s fourth in the points and I bet he’d take that if we offered it to him at the beginning of the year. That’s ok, he’ll snap out of it. If you ask me (and no one did), I think his starts have gone bye bye because I haven’t seen him fade to the back, I just haven’t seen him up there in the first place. Paging Tim Ferry, paging Tim Ferry!
9. Justin Brayton Cornelius, NC Yamaha YZ450F- Did you know that a while ago Brayton switched from a ONE Industries helmet to a Bell helmet? Yeah, maybe you did but I just noticed it a few weeks ago. I’m such an eagle eye aren’t I? JB did it for a potential energy drink sponsor that requires the side of the helmet to have the logo.
10. Andrew Short Smithville, TX KTM 450 SX-F- Short was just there all day. I didn’t notice him one way or another much because the race up front was so great. He wasn’t happy with this finish but eh, what are you going to do?
11. Broc Tickle Holly, MI Suzuki RM-Z450- Another weekend and another ninth to twelfth-place finish for Tickle. He’s tenth in the points which is ok on paper, but off paper and at the races, he’s sort of just there. I thought he’d step it up a bit this year but he’s kind of been the same as he was.
12. Jake Weimer Rupert, ID Kawasaki KX 450F- Weimer started off the year really well but then got sick, busted up some ribs and is now two races into his comeback from that. It’s a slippery slope to get back on that edge when you miss time and Weimer’s finding that out. He’ll get better as he gets better (you like that?). He was half a lap away from going to the LCQ this weekend until Chris Blose threw it away for no apparent reason.
13. Eli Tomac Cortez, CO Honda CRF 450- Again Tomac was fast in practice and looked to be a potential podium spoiler. But again, he couldn’t make it happen as he had to go to the LCQ and then, predictably, the bad start followed. Tomac’s finding out that life in the 450 class is rough. Still, he’ll be all right if he can get a start in a heat and in a main because the kidz got skillz (see what I did there to appeal to the younger demographic?)
14. Jimmy Albertson Shawnee, OK Honda CRF 450- Albertson is a buddy of mine but for reals, he’s been riding very well lately. He crashed early in the heat but ripped through from the back to be right there outside the top nine. In the LCQ he used “going slower faster” through the yellow flags to make time up on Chris Blose and then make a sweet pass on to take the last spot into the main. He looks so much better than last year it’s not even funny.
15. Matthew Goerke Lake Helen, FL KTM 450 SX-F- Rough main event for Goerke as he went down with Chisholm, started last on the re-start and then I think he went down again at some point. St Louis isn’t going to be on his greatest races career DVD, no doubt about that.
16. Kyle Partridge Lake Elsinore, CA Honda CRF 450- Partridge made it back into the main after a week off and I’m not sure what happened to him. Every time I noticed him he was just riding around out there.
17. Robert Kiniry Holland Patent, NY Yamaha YZ450F- Kiniry was not happy with Goerke after the main, as he felt that Matt took him out. Kiniry was third at one point (!), later on went down in that turn where the RV/Stew thing happened, pulled into the mechanic’s area for repairs and then went back out there.
18. Weston Peick Wildomar, CA Suzuki RM-Z450- Peick crashed out. And he probably didn’t even care about that.
19. Phillip Nicoletti Bethel, NY Yamaha YZ450F- After getting informed by a fan on Friday night that I said he was a “triple” (you have to listen to the Pulpmx Show to know what this means), Nicoletti made his first main of the year with a great heat race. Nicoletti’s got skills, there’s no debate about that, but he’s got to keep it together for an entire race. Unfortunately for Phil, he wasn’t able to keep it together in the main event but this was a step in the right direction.
20. Kyle Chisholm Valrico, FL Yamaha YZ450F- Chisholm went down hard when Matt Georke collided with him when he was trying to avoid Jake Weimer. A broken ankle and maybe some knee damage will keep Kyle on the sidelines for a while, which is a huge bummer for him as he had just gotten the JGR Yamaha fill-in ride.
Hey, kidz, Tomac'z got skillz.
Cudby photos
Some news and notes and as always, dedicated to Tom McGovern at Kawasaki
- As stated, Chris Blose of the N-Fab Yamaha team was a half a lap away from making the main event when he drifted wide into some Tuff blocks. That meant that N-Fab almost had all three of its riders in the main. But Blose was still in a qualifying spot in the LCQ when Albertson caught him and made a beautiful pass on him to take the last spot away. Chris Blose came as humanly possible as one could to making the main without actually making the main.
- Lots of talk amongst the riders that the section after the finish could be quaded out. As it was the guys were going onto a tabletop, then off, a triple and single out. Justin Barcia practically did a three and three-quarters in practice one time. I spoke to both Reed and Tomac who thought that they might pull the trigger on it but in the end, no one did. It was close to being doable though.
- (Warning-football talk) Coach Joe Gibbs was at the race supporting son Coy’s efforts to play team owner and I got to have a ten minute conversation with him about how he was one of the first to move the tight end around to get around from being smashed by linebackers with Kellen Winslow of the San Diego Chargers. He was also telling me about how he went to a single running back in the backfield because he had two backs in Washington who wouldn’t block for the other so they had to put him up on the line. It was a fascinating conversation between one Madden PS3 champion (myself) and one Super Bowl champion (Joe). It was also better than any conversation I’d had with Coy Gibbs in his five years of having a team.
Thanks for reading, send me an email at [email protected] and we can chat about this race or really, any race.
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Steve is right. There is the question of why the Red Cross flag was ever displayed to begin with. I differ with him with respect to RV passing in the "area of concern", and when the first penalty was imposed. There is no way that assessing a penalty during a race (halted under Red) is OK. That pretty much defeats the purpose - which is to penalize the rider based on the outcome.
Of course you differ with him SuperSXFan--You wanted your boy Stew to get the win.. But RV was better, and passed legally and got the win.. Now its over and done with.. It on to Daytona..
I gotta say, I can't agree with SM's take on Wilson and Hahn. Wilson was the stronger of the two and very nearly got him on that last lap. The gap Hahn pulled in the 2 laps before that was the result of a failed pass attempt by Wilson, which allowed him to stretch it out again. Another lap and Hahn would have been 2nd.
A decent start by Wilson, and Hahn's got no chance, confidence or no confidence.
So what your saying Steve is that RV can do anything and get away with it?
I do believe that there has been instances where riders like RV, JS etc have been the fastest on the track hands down but did they win - NOPE, the variables of the track ate them up wether it was a bad start, laying it over or getting docked a lap for whatever reason. The minute we let the riders assess the situation and adhere to the flags as they see fit we will have pandomonium, my point being that someone mentioned that RV probably saw the rider off the track and out of the area of concern. A big percentage of the time wrecks that seriously hurt riders involve TWO riders, so that one rider that is out of the area of concern might not be the issue. There might be a medic and a rider down just around the next turn if you get my drift. It doesn't matter why a red cross flag is displayed, what does matter is that every rider not matter who they are adheres to the rules behind it in its entirety. We have just set the presidence that if there is 4, 5, 6, or maybe NINE riders (it could happen this year) entering an area of a downed rider(s) that every one of them can speed up and get right next to the guy in front of them(as long as you don't TECHNICALLY pass them) and then have a free for all. These guys are getting paid alot of effing money to be stewards of the sport, professionals in every aspect and to win!! You said they handled both situations perfectly but then stated that that if there was no red flag procedures that they wouldn't have issued a penalty because they wouldn't want to rock the boat. And why would you mention that, because that is when the penalty should have been issued and everyone knows it! SuperSXFanMan got it right you penalize the rider on the out come of a race, you don't impose a penalty that you know will be erased. Thats like telling your kid he is grounded but when he asks five minutes later to go to the movies and you say sure! People, for the most part, are not blind or ignorant!! The race director and/or competent body needs to hold these riders to the standards of professionals period. When a rider gets hurt because of the presedence that was just set there will be no one to blame but those who enforce the rules. I do believe that the ones that made these decisions are getting paid to do their job - who is paying them?? Ansewring that question might answer everthing.
Way to go Steve, now Coy won't talk to you............ ever.
@therealmofo,, I also think RV's pass was OK, but,, a little sneaky.. I think the point that @ SuperSXFanMan is trying to make is,, it seems strange that RV's penalty was giving to him "during" the race,, and not "after" the race. You have to admit, that's a little sketchy..
Hey mofo, I think Stewart would have picked it up and left RV. If RV were so billy bad boy barou, why was he scared to wait? Because he knew the negrid was going to put it in high gear and blast off. It's fortunate that lucky charms snuck past. How's that??
(I'm being complete cynical, but that's about the level of mentality here). It had nothing to do with favorites, it has to do with RULES. Like I said, precedence it set that rules don't apply. If the rule was to get an inch chopped off your pecker for passing on a yellow, I bet nobody would do it. The AMA needs to step up. Poor Davi MILLSAPS, he got the short end of the stick on this one (again, no pun).
Regardless of the controversy, it was a great race. I enjoyed it
Daytona, I have a feeling Reeds coming to play
HAS ANY PENALTY BEEN APPLIED TO DUNGEY FOR HIS ILLEGAL PASS ON MILSAPS?
that was ridiculous and even more so how it has gone unspoken about. it is very clear in Davis GO PRO footage that the move was illegal.
The AMA really needs to dial in there system wayyy better. In a close season like this you need all the points you can for a championship, its gonna be terrible if it ends with woulda coulda shouldas.
Check out this link. Open you facebook first!!
https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=343793185727423&set=a.271848376255238.49548.229717667134976&type=1&theater;
Looks like RV had fun on this loamy track.
JS7 was quick to admit RV's good riding and I wonder if JS7:
a) just turn the "crash or win" switch off (no title hope; why risking it?)
or
b) just had nothing else in his bag for RV?
Can't wait for Daytona...
@ rickmatuz, at what point are you going to let the rules argument, that has already been disected and beat to death go? Don't ruin your rep as a poster with something to offer by being so biased you miss what is really going on.
You can watch the JS video a hundred times and the fact that you can't see RV's front fender until they are on the last roller AT or JUST past the last yellow flag. WHICH HAS BEEN ackowleged as LEGAL to pass under. To me it says the guy racing for the championship was ready to put him self in the best position possible and drop the hammer at the earliest possible moment.
Great race.........NEXT!
Your guy always shines at Daytona, so look forward not back and may we have another just like it this Saturday.
Nice post Shepster, is that your facebook page?
GET OVER IT
That picture shows me Stewart knew he was right there, he does not actually pass him until the roller that is two jumps later.
I say again, it was the AMA flaggers at fault not RV. I guarantee Stewart will be thinking like RV a little more the next time it happens.
@Red54m Nope, not mine Pal, but I did share it. Of course Stewart knew he was there, doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to know that the guy you just passed is right behind you. Flaggers fault or not the riders don't know that and they should adhere to the flags -period!!
Steve Matthes, firstly, you write like a 16 year old girl. I'm not sure what editor told you it was acceptable to use interjections such as "so yeah", or "well nope", but it's not. Racer X is a highly reputable publication, not your eighth grade diary. Secondly, we read this article in hopes of obtaining a brief synopsis of the events that took place in St. Louis on Saturday night, not just a four paragraph elocution of your personal opinion of the track design. You might as well just pick up a rock and throw it at the Dirt Wurx crew next time you see them, because the slanderous, ambiguous attack you made here was in essence the same. Moving on, I'm glad to see that you've found your way to the feet of Ryan Villipoto. While the red head is on a tear right now, we don't need to hear from his defense lawyer about how the AMA, the FIM, and Feld Motorsports have never run a race before. I think it's time you stepped down off that horse my friend, and realized that this is the real world. We come to Racer X to hear the news, and you are not the subject of it. Just do your job and report it.
James Stewart and his team are cowards. You want a win Stewart? Pass him and take the checkers first you coward!!! Protesting yourself to get a win you didn't deserve is a punk little bit** move. No respect for you after that move for Suzuki or James.
@rickamatuzio
Crying will never take away the fact that RV and Barcia owned your boy James the other night. :)
Dungey and Barcia better kick it into high gear these next few races.
Come on Dungey!! You're in this title chase just as much as RV, get in there and start taking away points from Davi if you want this championship!!! Ktm and Roger D need to get that bike figured out if that is indeed his problem.
Red- I actually never really complained about the pass thru the rollers. I think your missing the point, being why was RV only docked 3 positions and why during a race? That's the breach of rule I'm concerned about.
Realistically, a racer could cut track and barely get penalized. I mean, based on what Happened last week.
My above statement was an attempt to get the hair up on mofos neck but he didn't go for it.
Can't way to see Tomac tune it up at Daytona. Will be interesting to see how him and Kroc play into the championship points.
I think Tomac will do better considering Daytona wil be about fitness and speed with longer laptimes giving him more time to pass if he gets a bad start.
Can't wait to watch.
Watching RV destroy berms is pure art. The way he squats in the back and stays low reminds me of RC.
I wonder this.
Was RV1 a wiser guy after getting the first penallty?
Because I am sure the ama explained to him why he was being penalised 3 spots and so when the opportunity came in the main he took it.
Maybe not.
And in regard of the first penalty.
I thought I have seen in other motorsports that a rider/driver can be penalised during a race and its easier to do if you have a red flag situation.
I dont know the ama rule book or what the actual penalty is or should be.
But maybe give some credit to the ama for dealing with it quickly and then letting them go race.
And maybe the teams and riders should take more resposibility to know the rules before talking about logging complaints. (rockstar energy against RD5).
WOW.? ...still at it are we?
Only 4 more days folks...how about a little moratorium on flag-gate....What ya say?
Half the guys in the field probably should of been penalized including JS....let's just be happy we saw some good racing and added a zesty bit of drama to the series too.
Will fall asleep dreaming of the Mule cam view as it speeds along side the whoops of Daytona.
When i heard Emig say these 450s never shift outta second gear all the way around the track, makes me wanna shut off the tv, back in the day, aka 2 strokes ,shiftin was what made it cool,watchin,sound everything,you could tell who was on by the tone, lets just get automatics or electric bikes...geez waitin for the nationals
Everyone that doesn't want RV to win the title for a 3rd time in a row is just making a huge deal out of this to set the stage for what will be their excuse that they hang their hat on at the end of the year if he does indeed pull off number 3.
If you think this was a bad call by the AMA then fine but that's a part of all sports and whats done is done. Holy crap, have you ever watched the NBA??? I like RV so my panties aren't in a bunch here but I guess to relate to those whose panties are in a bunch I can think about the 2006 NBA finals when the Dallas Mavericks lost to the Miami Heat from a BOGUS call. I was pissed at the NBA and was ready to burn the bridges, pillage the village, the whole nine yards. But you know what - I got over it. So fear not RV haters, you will get over it too. Just give it some time. And if this "bad call" boils your blood please, for your own health, don't watch the NBA.
Kudos to JS loving Matthes for remaining objective and giving RV credit when due. Some of you should take notice.
@ricka Cutting an inch off for each yellow flag pass isn't fair. JS has more to offer in that regard.
RV is faster at going slow? What the hell does that mean other that Stewart slowed down like he should have and RV didnt.
And it is not up to the rider to determine if it is safe! Also there should not have been a single file restart. The AMA is a joke !
Dungey did not make an illegal pass, there were no red cross flags, only yellow .
If you watch Millsaps GoPro cam, it looks like RD passed him on the run-up to the triple with the red right beaming in their faces. In either case, RV or RD, there are legitimate questions. Unfortunately, they're not going to be answered. Not by us, not by Steve, and not by the AMA. They make the calls and we have to live with it. Suzuki and Rockstar have decided not to protest, so nothing we talk about here makes any difference. Hey, if they will let it go - why should I get worked up about it? I'm sure there was a time in history when wrestling fans thought their sport was being compromised, little by little. They just couldn't nail down each and every infraction. And now there is the WWF, etc. Enjoy!
All sarcasm aside: when one person breaks the rules and gets away with it, everyone pays the price eventually. It is indeed a slippery slope.
texag wrote:
@ricka Cutting an inch off for each yellow flag pass isn't fair. JS has more to offer in that regard.
Really? How do you know gay boy?
persona why do and a few others in other threads think Tomac is in such great shape?? He had issues all last summer trying to keep up with Baggett, hit the "wall" a few times and has already said the extra 5 laps and the 450 is harder than he though. I really don't see him wearing down RV or RD at daytona. Can he do well FOR sure but the fitness thing i don't get.
I bet Big JS was pissed JS left the inside open!!
Maybe now on these restarts everyone is going to pull right up beside the guy in front of them but not actually "pass" them because it's smart racing and the AMA isn't going to change the outcome of the finishing postitions. You know...since they've never done it before means they can't EVER do it in the future. Why are they there? Oh ya, to handle the situation "perfectly".
Reed looked alot better this week indeed, but these guys all race on the same track, good or bad..All I need is to be able to ride like RV and have a great bike and I'll be up there too......Reed has been out there longer than anyone and is a smart guy, he shouldnt be dickin' around at round 8 with which forks to use...I was wondering if he was going to pull the trigger and run into James like old times or not....I think Chad knew James was faster and knew it would come right back at him if he did........A better ride for Reed, but some good luck kept him on the podium as Barcia's bobble sealed the deal...RV, James and Barcia were pulling away from Reed in the beginning and did so again after flag central calmed down...
Daytona will be great !!!
For all his rhetoric regarding.." hey...I was a pro mechanic...and a "writer"...yea...I am " Steve Mathes is becoming a hack for AMA/FIM/Feld. Regardless of weather or not the medical crew was finished with Kiniry or not...the flags were out, and decorum dictated that RV should have waited until the racing was presumed et al before passing like a beatch. Would he have passed anyway...well, of course, but do it like a champion instead of a chump. Just because it is Mathes "considered opinion" that AMA/FIM/Feld would never alter the series standings just to adhere to a "rule" ( after all...who needs those...and the AMA/FIM/Feld usually ignore those anyway...for some reason...uhem $$$ ), it is unfair to every rider not to adhere to the rulebook so fairness occurs across the board. I'm a RV fan as much as anyone...but thousands of kids watch these events, and it seem much more equitable to get it right...in lieu of keeping the Mathes glorified staus quo happy. Don't worry Steve...your check will still cash this week...if your conscience will let you. Then, obviously,you can brown nose AMA/FIM/Feld more in next week's column...
Outlaw.
You and many others are ignoring the fact that JS was goon riding RV the whole race to that point. Including standing him up pretty stiff in the corner at the beginning of flag central....and in front of a Red Cross flag! Thinking RV was a little pissed at him.
Ripdown
I can appreciate your observation....but rules are there for a reason. Truth be told, JS goon rides most people he races with at some point ( meaning, I'm not a big fan of his ), but the rules of flagging during competition need to be upheld for everyone...not just because a particular rider is "hot" that night. Even RV being penalized during the restart was a farce...if he was going to be penalized, do it in the results at the end of the race. That, in itself, is unheard of. That screw up in and of itself may cost DV18 the championship. I was more upset that Mathes seems to pay homage to AMA/FIM/Feld every chance he gets...like his job depends on it. Unfortunately ( for us fans ) it probably does. Journalism is supposed to be objective...not a suck up.
And "the realmofo" keeps his perfect record of YEARS of posts that somehow mention Stewart or his fans going!! You are an iron man dude, your stamina and dedication in your quest to bag on JS remain an inspiration to us all, never change, please never change (sarc)............HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
@Whatever--You have a perfect record of ONLY commenting when Stewart is racing, otherwise you are non-existant.. You are NEVER around when he isnt racing, and you comment under several names and agree with yourself alot..
@utlaw53 you might want to reread what SM said. I thought it took a little journalistic Balls quite frankly.
@whatever, u hit the nail on the head there! lmao!
Come on guys, don't shoot the messenger. SM writes some real good stuff, along with the occasional garbage, but so does every other journo on here (with the possible exception of Ping, who's stuff is 100% crap). He has some great insights, but I guess at the end of the day you either think he's top or flop depending on whether you agree with him or not.
Personally, I don't want to always agree with what is written, cause that would show I'm not making my own calls, and I guess Matthes feels the same way.
I like Steve's style, but I guess nobody is gonna please everyone all the time.
outlaw53- first I'm over it but if you want parity go back and watch JS go pro of the incident. JS passed the blinking red light, THEN block passed RV. They BOTH knew JS broke the rule there (NO passing after the blinking red light) They then rolled the whole section with RV at or beside JS rear wheel, they passed the second red cross flag then two yellow flags and RV pulled alongside JS then passed into the corner (totally legal by the rules). In this incident JS is the ONLY clear rule breaker and this way offsets any RV should have waited like a champ mentality. If JS had been racing like a champ he would have NEVER passed RV after a blinking red light and RV would have lead the whole section anyway.
Please watch the JS go pro of this and then comment- you will be surprised
This still isn't put to rest.....holy. From what I understand from all these videos and explanations is this...
1. The leader had begun lap 3, therefore a staggered restart was warranted and no rules were broken with that restart.
2. RV was penalized for jumping on the red cross, I read that the rules state the penalty is up to the race official. I didn't search this one myself but if this is true, again no rule violations.
3. The GoPro from JS' helmet clearly shows them pass the second red cross flag before RV pulls up alongside him. Questionable pass yes based on when the "red flag zone" ended and when the next section starts, but not certain enough to issue a championship altering penalty.
4. JS also put a questionable pass/takeout attempt on RV in the previous corner under red lights, this rule is somewhat open to interpretation on when they had to stop racing coming up to the red flag at the exit of the turn. Again, questionable/grey area and to me just as much of a cheapshot pass as RV's pass was, I didn't like both of them. To me this makes the RV/JS issue a wash.
5. The fact all teams chose not to protest after the post-race pow wow tells me there was just too much grey area with the rulebook open to interpretation. They could all be viewed as potentially violating the rules or not depending who you asked. With that much uncertainty it would be much more unfair to issue penalties than to just leave it be. Issuing penalties to only one rider when so many potentially violated the rules would compromise the integrity of the results more than the decision they made. I agree with not intervening in race results if at all possible.
That's just the way I see it anyways, I feel they did the best they could to minimize the effect on the series which is how it should be. There was going to controversy no matter what they did.
It kills me that some folks want to call Villopoto names for making a pass and then want their guy to win on a BS tecnicality.
I think y'all need to go pick up a jumbo tube of Vagasil, because you are the ones who are beotches.
Go back and watch some old races. Stewart has tried to run villopoto off the track almost every time Villopoto has gone to pass him. Go watch Dayton from 2 years ago. Stewart tried to take Villopoto out when Stewart was being lapped by him. He is a dirt bag through and through. And some people think Villopoto should have waited until Stewart was more ready for Villo to pass. What the E'f is wrong with you people?
@ Retardcross, your name discredits your insight. Great post, pobably the most accurate and rudimentary summation of this ordeal!
Great job!
Anyone else care to post on the topic, you must first read Retardcross' take, AMEN!
So Matthes I take it you are looking to stay at Villopotos house while in FL. for Daytona .. LoL
@Retardcross--You are so wrong, you cannot make posts and points that make sense, No way.. What you wrote just wasnt fair, explaining the rules and things.. Especially the part about Stewarts pass under the red lights at the start of the red cross section.. You are not allowed to bring that up.. It looks to me the Stew fans just want to get Stew a win, under any circumstances.. One "Stew Fan" even said he was "concerned with the integrity of the sport" HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! That was a good one..
@davidl - Thanks for a concise response to the situation overall. One of the things I like so much about this sport is that we all pay attention...unlike some sports. Since the majority of us have "rubbed" a bit of plastic in competition at some level, it makes sense that the majority of fans will have something definative to say about any "controversy". My stab at Mathes has more to do with his blanket statement about the AMA/FIM/Feld being somehow held harmless and above reproach..since none of us wants a cheerleader on the sidelines covering the possible errors of a promoter or sanctioning body. It is much healthier to have folks reporting that aren't "starstruck" by professional riders, referees, and/or corporate big wigs. Just look at FIM/GPs with Guiesspe Longo. He has made the World Championships a joke....and I wouldn't want SX/MX to go that route. I'm satisfied enough to let the crossed flags controversy go...but let's hope that some overzealous reporter doesn't jump on the AMA/FIM/Feld bandwagon next time and instead report the situation in an unbaised manner.
So I watched the race again last night. In the first Red Cross area before the restart, Barcia jumps off the same jump RV doubled off just before RV does, then Alessi doubled the next jump after it. It really all is very bizarre. Apparently the only thing wrong there was passing Alessi as 2 other guys jumped right in the same area that RV got penalized for at almost the same instant.
Someone just sent me this. Take a look and sort it out for yourselves...
http://www.motosouth.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11003&d=1362520552
the thing I didn't like he got most of that gap when he passed js on the yellow flag he should of stayed on him threw the yellow then passed him straight up
I have said it once and I will say it again, the restart should have been off the gate. The rules clearly state that 3 laps must be completed for a stagger start. The red cross flag came out on lap 3 not lap 4 therefore 3 laps had not been completed. Look at the lap chart for your proof. I am not an RV hater (in fact I am a JS hater) but I do believe that rules should be applied and followed and if the AMA officials do not know how to do this then maybe the AMA needs to look into getting new officials. Any official that allows the rider to choose his penalty is no official in my book. But in the end it won't matter because RV will not win this year anyway. He will crash out at Daytona.
When Stewart makes one wrong move, I'll be all over him like blue lights on his truck, giving him no breaks, so be ready, community organizers. My typing fingers are ready for the holeshot.