Monday Conversation: Ryan Villopoto
Monday, March 4, 2013 | 9:30 AM
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PrintLots of talk and controversy over what went down in St. Louis, with Ryan Villopoto taking on a mid race penalty (of three positions) for an illegal pass on Mike Alessi, but then later also avoiding a second penalty when he passed James Stewart for the lead under yellow flags. [For an explanation of why he wasn’t penalized the second time, and Villopoto’s take on the situation, check out The Moment from yesterday].
What isn’t controversial is RV’s speed. He was simply on it in St. Louis, and he made passes, rode strong, and won. To hear how RV felt about his race, here’s an interview with him from straight off of the podium, as soon as the race was over.
Racer X: Take us through this one, from the start.
Ryan Villopoto: First turn, [Justin] Barcia did a powerslide and then I did one, James was unable to get underneath me. I was third and then 4th, got around a guy and made a costly mistake and jumped on a red cross. I thought I was past it but it’s obviously the full straightaway. It was on Mike [Alessi], and obviously we know Mike’s kind of hard to pass. I wanted to try to get it done right away and just jumped the gun. And then obviously [the] red flag and they re-lined us up and I was 5th. They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah, yeah, they must have mis-said what they were originally going to do, and ended up changing it. That was good because whatever happened during the race it’s not like I was stuck with winning and then getting docked. So that was good.
Villopoto and Stewart had a heated, controversial battle in St. Louis.
Simon Cudby photo
Talk about that sand section [the sand before the finish] over here because it looked like you were gaining time throughout the day right there.
Yeah, I was good there. James was good there. Once the restart, we took off and I was able to make up some passes and get into third. I think Barcia was second. Once I knew I was in third and James didn’t gap I knew it was going to be a race. So I was able to get around him, get into second, and just put pressure on James. Then there was another red cross and we had a roll a couple sections. Actually Barcia, I seen him get right on me. So we all tightened up there and then I was able to get him here before the whoops and he squared it up, went underneath me. Got me back and I was able to get him here going into the sand.
You guys passed each other probably four or five times. It looked like a chess game out there.
It was one of the more intense races. Being that this dirt’s pretty good, I was just eating roost big time. I tend to ride with my mouth open so I get it all in my mouth and stuck in my throat, so was trying to cough that up a few of the laps. But it was a crazy race.
Were you worried about being able to make passes because the last couple tracks there haven’t been a lot of areas to make passes? Or do you have it figured out?
I think this dirt promoted passes just because you’re able to ride harder and then stick it in here, stick it in there, and square up. The whoops obviously were the downfall on this track this weekend, just because it was pretty much a straightaway so that made it easy for everybody to go through there. But I think it was one of the better tracks. I think the dirt was a lot of that.
That’s a double-edged sword, too. If it’s easier for you to get by, that means you’ve got to be more careful with guys behind you.
Same thing for everyone. When I passed James the first time he was able to go right underneath me. I don’t think he would have been able to do that if it was a harder packed track. He just doesn’t have the grip to do that.
Check out The Moment to see why the AMA upheld the win.
Simon Cudby photo
You talked about making some big changes this week. I noticed some different clamps on your bike.
As a team we were working on making the bike better and we were able to come up with some things and obviously try them. It’s called testing and sometimes they don’t work, sometimes they work. We were able to, I feel, make some pretty huge gains this last week. When I went out in untimed practice for the first time I felt like it was so much easier to do that than it has been up until this point. So I was happy with what we’ve all come up.
Did you keep track on Davi [Millsaps] at all during the race?
Yeah, I knew once obviously the restart, he was behind me and then I knew that was in my benefit. But then double-edged sword, I went from 3rd to 5th and knew I had to make something happen.
Leading the race were you peeking on the board to see if he popped up there at all?
I wasn’t because when I would go actually before the first triple into that right-hander, I could see him coming through the sand. So I knew it was James, [then] the few guys I had just passed and then him. I knew he wasn’t third. Even if you get 3rd and I win that’s a fair amount of point difference. So I was good with that but 6th is even better.
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Gotta love the AMA. Villopoto says, whoa, dock me now, and they say OK? Then don't penalize him when he violates it again.
Its because he didnt violate it again... dont you read other articles??? There will be crying all week long now..good lord..
@KX you can pass on the yellow flag area being displayed. Look at the "the moment"
article. I think its bad to show Pro's passing / racing hard through yellow flag areas which young riders watch the pro's and think they can also do that in amateur races.
It was a good race per RV 1's comments on the dirt. Best one yet this year.
Didn't even get to see the 450 race yet. Evidentally, its not important enough to show in my part of the country.... Sucks !!!!
Passing on a yellow??? AMA are retards. Why bother having a yellow then.
Poto was faster for sure, but that was a cheezy pass. You'd think RV needs a refresher class on flags after 2 violations in one night. Time for the AMA to re-look at things after this.
Would like to know what the actual AMA rule book says, seems a little unfair to dock 3 positions and give RV seventeen laps to work on getting back to first? if there had been no restart he would have finished less 3 positions, no chance for a first place finish. No denying his speed, his intensity and corner speed at this point are unmatched. Time to step it up Boy's!!!
Happy for RV he rode great.. Love his style. He caught James sleeping at the wheel, I hope sooner or later those two will trade paint for 20 laps.
I have a feeling, that RV just put a little more pressure on Davi.. And Davi will be feeling the heat the next few rounds.
I'm suprised Reed doesn't like air fork.. I would love to see him challenge. Chad is awesome. Those two moves that James put on RV to retake the lead reminds me of Reed..
(Trey canard, please get your head back in the game. You had so much promise early this year.. I am pulling for you and Chad).
I really like RV after watching that CBS episode, he is a good kid. I don't like his wife so much, but he doesn't have to stay married forever. Hope RV keeps winning, but I hope James challenges and wins too
It sure sounds like riders are calling the shots. RV should have won on this night, he was the fastest without a doubt. Rv shouldn't have won on this night regardless of his speed because he should have been penalized not only once but most likely twice and penalized with the proper penalty. Just isn't fair for the guys who do exercise caution and keep things safe when there is a rider down. It's open season on red cross flags now.
I agree, RV may have been the fastest by a little bit and won the race on the track, but according to rules, he shouldn't have won!! The most interesting thing to me is what RV said in the interview...... "got around a guy and made a costly mistake and jumped on a red cross. I thought I was past it but it’s obviously the full straightaway.".......Ok then, was he not still on that same "red cross" straightaway in that second incident?? I also think it sucks that he seems to get to dictate how the penalty is applied!! Looking at this more from a Millsaps perspective, not Stewarts!!
Either way, it Ruined a good race. Hopefully Stewart is up for Daytona. I want to see him a RV go at it, not a sneak pass.
RV was on fire for sure...The flag stuff is a just mes -hopefully it doesnt happen again... I have read and digested all the rules and although it was a cheese move, It appears to be legit....However, in this artical above regarding the first Red Cross infraction, RV says the Red Cross means you can pass the entire straight away......so then the second time around, he still passed James on the same strait as the flag?? ugh..what a mess...clearly James was suprised and was maybe being a little too cautious....you notice Barcia speed up and ride along side of RV and RV pretty much was along side James where the red cross flags were out...and James should have hugged the inside...but I am sure he thought he could get to the turn and then it was game on.....bummer...but great ride for RV and James....Reed and Dungey pulled up with the flag event and it was tight for a few laps, but RV stretched it out as did Stewart after things settlles.....RV -12 nice!
@KX and @newmann, you are asking an excellent question, being why the penalty was assessed on the restart rather than at the end. I don't blame RV for asking, but clearly the AMA either did not have a rule in place for the restart / penalty scenario, or the AMA official didn't know the rule. That is a HUGE difference in a close points battle with the penalty assessed on lap 3 vs after the race. At the end of the day, no doubt he was fastest. But the rulebook needs to address this scenario, and they need to educate the trackside officials on that.
* you CANT pass for a full straight away when red cross flag is out..
Yes....That is my point, KilloMoto......that is exactly what he did on the second incident when he passed Stewart, they were still on the same straightaway that the red cross flags were out on, granted, somebody else was waiving yellow at the end of it, but something was wrong there!!
I think its time for the AMA to step out of PRO Racing,the sport needs a replacement.An organization that doe not care if you are the REIGNING CHAMPION or not.Everyone on here that upholds the Villopoto jumping-passing incident in St.Louis are obviously his fans,a blind man could have noticed the pass.Was he faster than every one else?Sure he was.Would he have won the race?Probably so.Come on sanctioning body,hire someone that makes rules and sticks to them.I know a guy in the Tri Cities area of Eastern Tennessee,that could run a GREAT program,and heck he may even bring back MOTO JOE!
Kinda see a pattern here with RV. Funny you never hear anyone else as much as him.
That was a black eye (this whole incident) to the sport of SX - Ryan and the AMA should both be ashamed - there are certain ways one should go about things in life - with honor always - RV showed no honor and the "interpretation" of the rules by the AMA and the FIM didn't either.
To be clear - he was the fastes on the track - but I don't always root for the fast guy - I root for the good guy - there ws nothing good about this incident.
good job by the way Will - and equally good on you Deano.
Looked like the brothers in arms Reed and Stewart are back to where they wantto be - and they both looked so happy! - not...
best race and best track of the year. I saw ROOOOOOOST of the tires!! so much better than racing on pavment!!
.As for the RV dea. Its up to the AMA and it is OK to pass under yellow and thats what he did. Funny to hear RC talk about the AMA like they would try to find a woy out of it. Thats what they DID with you RC when they gave you your 25 points back for fulegate!! remember that??
Danmit it the submit,
.Anyway funny how much better RV is when you have a track you can push on. He passed RD, CR, JB, & JS. Also funny how the first time Sap's gets a bad start all year he gets in two messes, one with RD and one with Canard slamming him. Things are hard back in the pack.
Well, BillC.....that is the question, the red flags are to be enforced for the full straightaway, but he didn't obey that......why were there yellow flags waiving at the end of the section??
Laffing about the sticklers on rules in motorcycle racing. You are the same guys that during a massive mud run follow the arrows and get stuck to your seat while the smart riders go off the track and get through to finish in the top. Fast guys don't mess around when they are behind a bunch of blockers like Mike and the other idiots. It is the slow guys that always cause the red flags to begin with usually off the start riding over their heads. Sure you would love to see RV docked from first to fourth so your slow favorite rider could move up and grab undeserved points. How about why did your favorite rider just stay in his position and not pass one single soul? The organization is not stupid they are not going to risk TV exposure because of placing a loser in the winners circle over some controversal double yellow flag. Anyone could see that RV was going to win even if he had started in 9th place. I hope all you letter of the law rule bookers never sand bagged or had your bike air lifted out of some river crossing while crying to your mamas. The official made the decision before the restart and after all he was in charge not you guys crying because your rider did not get a gift.
"theysaidwhat wrote: about 16 minutes ago
Yes....That is my point, KilloMoto......that is exactly what he did on the second incident when he passed Stewart, they were still on the same straightaway that the red cross flags were out on, granted, somebody else was waiving yellow at the end of it, but something was wrong there!!"
.for sure close but one could argue that the pass was made over the bump "INTO" the corner and also Passed the yellow flags.
I see the fact that RV used the yellow/red flags to his advantage in the race as a cheap shot! Hey RV, can you set someone up for a pass without using caution flags for help? This whole thing stinks and I am sure the moto karma gods will show RV it would've been better to start last in this one vs no points in a race coming up, we will see this equal out in the end, it always does.
If RV would get docked 3 positions at the end of the race and finish 4th, he would loose 7 points in championship. Now if he wins a title by 8 points over Millsaps, will you, people stop crying??? I think not. You'll find any reason to hate! Lol
" It was on Mike [Alessi], and obviously we know Mike’s kind of hard to pass"-RV1
Classic RV, the rivalry continues even if it is little jabs here and there. lol.
When RV won (in dominating fashion) I knew Claxton would come crawling back out of the woodwork.
Welcome back to the boards - its your tuirn to shine (vicariously)
Shoulda coulda woulda!!
The best man did win on that night! RV got docked three positions (deservingly so) then made a push to the front, got there quickly battled with JS
When he did get out front, he wasn't challenged either, things r really heating up, the points chase is tightening, and we finally got to c some racing, St. Louis's theme should read "changing back to the original guard". Promoters should keep it simple, good dirt=good racing!
I love this sport!!! All balls!!
I would have liked to see Windham use one of his transition jumps to take the lead and win a race and then make the AMA show where in the rule book it says you can't do it.
Hey SpeedShifter......who in the hell is making this about Stewart?? Only you, fool! People on here are talking about the rules and how they were enforced, actually trying to have a discussion about it!! You make it clear how much of a shallow, one track-mind, obsessive "critic" of a specific rider you are with your post!! Paranoid-Schizophrenia must be a horrible condition to live with!!
Stop bringing politics, racism, and threats into this board! It's the 21st century, we are all created equal! We all can have an opinion haters, the ignorance of some comments makes this sport look like its Wwe combined with the Kkk, or rednecks on mini bikes with lawn mower engines.
RV gamble and got pinched in the heat race, but he got lucky in the main. Didn't he go by the down rider right after making the pass?
Whats funny about most of the complainers is the absolute worst violation in st louis was JS block passing RV AFTER the blinking red light at the begging of the corner. It was a nice pass but happened in between the blinking red light and the red cross flag, all this was before the rider in danger. The rules clearly say NO passing in the section after the blinking red light.
Now in the first violation RV did jump the last double after rolling the first, when he jumped he was past the rider in danger, but still in the same section. Penalty was probably fair as he was clearly past the danger. NOTE- the rules say section-meaning series of jumps- NOT the whole straight. In this situation RV honored the meaning of the rule (safety of the downed rider) but not the letter of the rule (should have rolled one more jump before passing MA.
In the second pass of JS there were simply no rules broken in spirit or by the rule. RV rolled everything in the whole section and made the pass by holding the inside rear tire of JS the whole section and passing in THE NEXT CORNER- everything was textbook by the rules and in respecting the downed rider, I seriously think the problem is the people that do not want RV to win at all costs.
Guys - this happened PAST the rider who was NOT down but sitting on his bike and facing forward kicking it !!
Its funny to know the race teams are not protesting this at all, only the fans. I would think the race teams would know the rules better than ANY fan and I do know that if JS team says anything JS move will come up for review and we don't want that now do we ?
@Theysaid what---You said earlier that the second pass RV made was on the straighaway during the red cross flags.. WRONG---I watched the pass again, RV does NOT pass Stew until they are crossing the roller going through the corner.. AFTER the red cross section and even leaving the yellow flags.. RV was faster in St. Louis and the faster man won..Sorry
Good dirt = good racing
@davidl....the race teams DID protest it!! @realmofo, well that is YOUR take on it....not even gonna argue with a bias villotard like you!!
That was a JOKE and everybody knows it! Reeled in Stewert in a "use extreme caution" situation, had the inside with "bars a bangin" right next to a red cross and yellow flag waving. James is like "WTF" is this?
Ryan "Red Cross Racer" Villopoto
Great post davidl !!
Lot's of "NEW" names popping up on here today!!!
SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN:
Here is what i have found out of the current rulebook that touches on the consequences of breaking a rule while racing.
Quote from section A1- "Participation in these meets is a privilege afforded to license and event credential holders, and all such participants
understand that violation of AMA Supercross, an FIM World
Championship rules and procedures can lead to forfeiture of
their competition licenses or event credential, fines, points
deductions, lap deductions, finishing position deductions, time
penalties (which must result in the loss of at least one finishing
position), disqualification and other disciplinary actions as
outlined herein."
(WHICH MUST RESULT IN THE LOSS OF AT LEAST ONE FINISHING POSITION.)
If someone can show me how they justify a 3 postion docking from RV during the middle of the restart, that would be awesome cuz im confused. Howd they come up with this 3 postion rule?
Rv was definitely the fastest of the night but i would have like to seen him pass like a man instead of doin his dirt in the caution zones.
@davidl.......so it is up to the discretion of the rider then to decide whether or not the "flags" need to be obeyed, based on a quick assessment of the situation?? That makes no sense, if a rider sees flags-a-waivin' he doesn't have to pay attention to them as long as he sees the "coast is clear"?? I don't think that is how it works my man!!
So much being made about RV and his passing. I think the bigger point that most people are missing here is the complete lack of professionalism being shown by the officials.
Example 1: If the race was not stopped after Chizzy's crash then RV would have won and been penalized for his pass on Alessi. End of story. But because it was stopped he was able to somehow protest that the penalty be applied mid-race. So the officials then line them up staggered start, the whole point is that they are keeping the integrity of the race as more than 3 laps have already passed. But they have already (IMO) sullied the integrity of the race by applying RV's penalty at this time. As far as I can tell from the rules under a re-start mid-race the riders are lined up as they are running. Technically I believe RV should have been lined up 3rd and then docked at the end. But hey, it was very smart of him to suggest to the official to penalize him at that point.
Example 2: WTF were the officials, flaggers and track staff doing when Kiniry crashed? They have red cross flags out with no medical staff on the course and Kiniry up starting the bike. One yellow flag is hanging limp and the other a few yards away is being waved. Pretty hard for a rider in race mode to able to interpret what is happening here. We have the benefit of replays and freeze-frames. RV's pass is pretty close to the second red cross flag but it is impossible to know exactly which of these flags the riders could see because there were track staff blocking the view of the AMA official. As per this picture:
http://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/15018/photos/65034/s1600_Screen_shot_2013_03_04_at_2.21.16_PM.jpg?1362367319
So really, as much as everyone wants to villo-fy (haha) RV and his actions, I think much of the fuss is a result of some incredibly inconsistent and amateur officiating and flag work.
Great race for sure! RV was the man Saturday night. At first I too didn't think you could pass on a yellow flag, but apparently you can as long as you're careful. As far as being penalized at the restart, smart move on RV's part to make the suggestion lol, who could blame him? I know the outcome isn't popular with some, but it is what it is I guess. At least everyone agrees RV was fastest that night whether or not they liked the outcome.
they said what, after the meeting ALL protests were withdrawn. There are no protest about this currently from the teams.
the only protests are from opposing fans
@davidl makes a ton of sense. I didn't even think about JS's team not asking for a review. Why would they? LOL
VOR I am simply saying that yes both times RV passed it was past the stalled or downed riders. BUT when JS passed RV it was BEFORE the riders in danger. The whole reason for the flags is the safety of the rider.
I think the officials should make the calls and did, I believe correctly.
I do not like restarts, but sometimes they are needed, Last year we saw one that really hurt RV so it generally all comes out even in the wash.
On to things racing, I am hoping for a CR resurgance and expect it. TC REALLY came up from a terrible start- maybe he is getting his mojo back. Barcia is running the pace and will be deadly if he can minimize mistakes.
WOW ! I am so impressed with Wil Hahn ! Wilson was on it and was the fastes but a bad start and being held up by VF hurt him, but Wil got him back TWICE and held on for the win !!!
Still RD and CR made up the most ground thru the red flag section.
@ davidl ..... Well said. We need to remember this whole thing is bigger than just RV and JS, there was questionable judgement by multiple of riders at the front and a bit further back and lot of confusion caused by the flags. Stewart tried to park RV after the red blinking lights but before the red cross flags, everyone held position through the danger zone with Barcia hot on their heels making up huge time, I feel like RV's cheapshot pass is kind of cancelled out by Stewart's cheapshot pass in the corner before under red lights/flag. They all need to smarten up with exercising caution on flags and the AMA needs some flagger training. All in all I think they did the right thing leaving the results as is, any penalties would have to address more than just RV to be fair and there was too much confusion. Kind of a blackmark on the race though althought I don't think the end result would have been any different.
davidl wrote: about 14 minutes ago
..... The whole reason for the flags is the safety of the rider.......
--------------------------------------------------
Incorrect --. they are also can be for the safety of the personel on the track who may be coming to, or are providing aid to, the down rider.
Lc4rc-
Please show me where race and politics was brought up? I must have missed it
RV won fair and square. He owned #7, who, if he was what his tards call him, you know, FMOTP, he would have checked out with a clear track ahead of him. He was also fortunate Bam Bam made a mistake, otherwise he would have been another place further back. Of course Shehaan had to tell us about #7's bum knee when he got pushed back to 3rd. Funny how it made a miraculous recovery for just one week, and now it's playing up again. LOL.
RV should have been docked after the race.
Plain and simple. Sounds like MONSTER is having to much say in referee decisions.
To be docked in race, it should have been a 1 lap penalty, not 3 positions.
RV and RD did the same thing, if RD would have been penalized post race, they would have had to do the same to RV......and that wasn't gonna happen
RV says, "...made a costly mistake and jumped on a red cross. I thought I was past it but it’s obviously the full straightaway."
I didnt know the Red Cross applied to the whole section. If that's the case then he did make a mistake again after the restart. His claim that the yellow flags were waving when he passed is not valid if the Red Cross applies to a full section once waved.
RV1 killed it plain and simple, I think if he started 10th he would have ran down Stewie by race end. The new set up had made a difference, remember back in 2011, they changed his bike at Unadilla and from there he was unstoppable. Same thing this year. RV1 2013 Supercross and Motocross champ. "The champ is here, the champ is here"
So there you have it, in order to win a race you have to ride with your mouth open. I wonder if they make foam mouth inserts for muddy tracks.
@ hamncheese I agree.
I wish someone would light a fire under RD's but. He is better than what he is showing. With that said I am trying to figure out this whole mess. Here is what the rulebook says about a white flag with a red cross.
Section 4 Race Rules and Procedures
4.15 Flags and Lights a. Operational Flags / Lights
3. White Flag with Red Cross: In Supercross this flag or a red flashing light may be displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of jumps. The riders must roll each jump individually with no passing and exercise extreme caution until they are past the area of concern, this includes the sighting or cool down.
2013 ama supercross rulebook.
Very vague to say the least. Exercising extreme caution to a SX rider is going to have different interpretations. Past the area of concern is marked by WHAT!!!
Now, when the rules address the aspect of penalties to be awarded we really see why we have the issues we are having.
A2 General Offenses and Penalties
c. The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the Race Director and/or the competent bodies. This list is provided as guidance to licensed competitors and event credential holders but does not restrict AMA from invoking penalties for other actions detrimental to the sport that are not specifically contemplated herein.
15. Failing to immediately respect and comply with operational or warning flags/lights or other signals from racing officials
The race director or competent body will interpret this as he/they see fit. Obviously RV/Monster Energy Kawasaki is going to get a lesser penalty than lets say a privateer. The problem here is not the rider or the sponsor, its the rule book. The rider/sponsor is going to get away with whatever they can to win! The rulebook is written with too many grey areas. There should be a black and white penalty for all violations period. Now we have to deal with the incompetencies and favoritism of humans.We want to look at NASCAR because they provide a better show in the end, lets also take a look at NASCAR they utilize technology. That and a clear and concise penalty for each violation will clear up alot of this. All we can ask for with what we have at this time is that they are consistent across the board, if the penalty was assessed the first time, it should have been assessed the second time.
Its a shame that the injury happened because I would have liked to see the battle that was developing. RV was definitely the quickest but we have seen JS time and time again turn it on when pressured. After the pass by RV JS had to deal with BAMBAM, which is another story, and RV pulled away. I am sure their is a battle in our future cause you can tell that JS wasn't happy. Someone smack my boy, RD, into the LCQ to light his fire and he would be right there battling too!!
There really is only one question that needs to be answered, as there is no question at all that RV was the fastest man on the planet that race.
Should the 3 positions docked have been at the end of the race? I would like to hear an official response from an AMA official on that one question.
Yes I'm a Stewart Fan, but this isn't anything about Stewart, it's all about Milsaps being screwed out of a bigger points lead. That my friends is what sucks here.
Great race track was awesome to see the lines taken, cornering ability, and acceleration.
I'll wait for the paperback Shepster---its over nobody cheated let it go...
Since when in the hell is it legal to pass under the yellow?????Man, to think all those years i've been following that damm pace car......opps...wrong sport..but the same principle right.....This might be the stupidest thing i've ever heard!!!
For everyone who feel sso strongly about the whoel flag thing, why aren;t you yelling about Barcia, who, in the first incident, went more 'wheels off the ground' than RV did...or even MA for that matter who also jumped the last couple doubles (granted, after being passed by RV). yet RV was the only one docked. If you say it means the entire stright, then all 3 s/h/b docked...right?
And in the 2nd incident,you need to take JS to task for passing RV 'in the red zone' as well as RV passing JS 'in the red zone'
Pleasedonthateus- good point and u r correct
I say, caps off to RV. The fastest guy (on that night) won the race. Now pick it back up Davi!!!
rickamatuzio, commenting on SpeedShifter's rant that included terms like illegal alien, references to js7 being ignorant because his race and reference to anyone defending js7 as part of an "entitlement crowd." Those comments have no place on here.
it was a punk move legal or not, he was faster and should have just waited for clear and then passed JS rather then sneeking by on a yellow....it was obvious the other racers were checking up....
@claxton ...well said......some guys will wait in line at a bottleneck till the race is over......lol.....I can't believe this is still a topic ...one thing for sure no matter what the topic ..Speedas*hole, or whatever name he uses ....will turn it into something vile ugly and normally not bike related.....great racing best in a long while ..flags or not...250's also...haul that dirt to every race...add 1.00 dollar to the ticket price to cover it .ITS WORTH IT......because the sport will grow with racing like that...I'm actually glad it was on CBS and hopefully a lot of folks got to see it....on to Daytona...oughta be a barnburner...or a cross burner in Speedshifts world....f'in pig. @rickamtuzio ...how about everytime this fu*king idiot opens his trap..thats when.
All the crap from this weekend is just wasted ink anyway. If no injuries to the top 3, RV is going to win by at least 20 points, RD 2nd and DM 3rd. Everyone on the track knows this and have known this for 6 weeks. That is just how the talent stacks up. Like it or not, that's it!
RV was blazing fast and deserved the win, hell he passed a (HEALTHY) James Stewart 3 or 4 times with only the last one being contested here.
Thats right I said healthy Ralph SHE-HAM, you are really bad Ralphy boy, with your constant messing up names both past and present and confusing manufacturers. I think I like the idea of X racers commentating. Ralph does not look like a guy who would dare throw a leg over a 450.
@ davidL and hamncheeze good posts! Even though cheeze I don't agree with you about RV your focal point otherwise accutrate.
Why would you still be waving a redcross flag when rider gets on his bike??? The minute he is up with bike in hand the red cross should go away amnd only the yellow be waving and then none of us would have anything to talk about.
@ BillC, you and I always agree on RV but when it involves Stewart we differ. IMO JS7 made an aggressive block pass, then ran RV high and with out RV showing complete caution and checking up, avoiding James rear wheel, it would have been a take out move. He looked to be hunting RV's front wheel. I am just glad RV is the faster man so the payback ability will always be there.
Great race, if RV finishes ahead of Saps in the next rave it will likely be a single digit lead with a lot of racing left.
BRING ON DAYTONA!!! Without the rain this year please!
In many 4 wheel racing series, Drivers are assessed penalties during the race (stop-n-go, loose 1 lap, etc.) for various infractions on the race track. RV1 got his before the single flag re-start. Regarding the second flag situation everyone is talking about, Larry Witmer (a Racer with arguably more ‘Starts’ than anyone here) stated the rules clearly: passing under the Yellow in AMA Pro Events is allowed.
The JS7 post race interview was very revealing: James, himself, said Ryan caught him off-guard. He admitted it was his own fault that RV1 slipped by. Moral of the story: Know the rules and pay attention. I can’t imagine a single real Racer, former or current, who would not have been looking for any opportunity to pass and distance himself from his chief rival, asap.
The AMA made the right call. Lets not start down the road of more flag waving during or after an event... (albeit the Blue ones, which should be taken a bit more seriously by those off the pace/a lap down). Next thing you know we’ll have a ‘Pace-bike’ and full track/course ‘Yellows’. Let the guys have at it.
And there you have it folks!! The season has finally started, you have the JS7 fans the RV1 fans RD,CR, DM,TC fans all fighting, battling each other on the forums. This place is blowing up and its about to get better!! riders looking for revenge or to capitalize on Daytona, either way its going to be a barn burner.
Regardless of how you view the outcome on Saturday night, if it never happened the season would still be boring and this would be another lame forum.
Bring on Daytona, the fireworks have just begun! get your popcorn ready.
I read the AMA explanation for how his pass on Stew was legal, but I disagree. RV said himself: "and jumped on a red cross. I thought I was past it but it’s obviously the full straightaway." If the red cross is for the whole straightaway, then he was still under redcross rules when he passed. That should have been a penalty. Also, he lucked out when they imposed his position dock during the restart. If it hadn't been for that, best he could have finished was fourth (i think). I think that was BS, also. I am not a Stew fan, in fact I greatly dislike him, but he got robbed in STL. RV got away with two in one race. Who remembers RV's tripling under the lights at Atlanta last year? Following the rules seems to be a problem for LuckyCharms.
The AMA only applies the rules when it doesn't have a negativwe impact on the product. They want close points battles and will apply penalties in respect to that. RC and fuelgate? He gets his points back but Reed and Bubba got busted for the same thing in different seasons and did not. Bogus.
rdub934
exactly!
Im done with the flag controversy
To bad they can't load that dirt up and take it with them to the remaining rounds
Im done with the flag controversy
To bad they can't load that dirt up and take it with them to the remaining rounds
Sorry for the double post something with the iPhone does that
Sounds like the AMA has rules, but doesn't apply the penalties the same for everyone. Maybe the AMA doesn't want to rock the boat with the Kawi, afraid they might lose some support.
@pippidekok - I agree. Shehann kills me and RV was on it.
@ Red54M You said:
"JS7 made an aggressive block pass, then ran RV high and with out RV showing complete caution and checking up, avoiding James rear wheel, it would have been a take out move. He looked to be hunting RV's front wheel. I am just glad RV is the faster man so the payback ability will always be there."
I was thinking the same thing! I had a JS/CR flashback when saw that. It looked like he was aiming more for RV than trying to make the turn. RV just saw it and kept himself from getting taken out.
First: what a great night of racing. And I think the racers handled themselves well and treated each other with respect after the race. RV was tops, and earned his win -- except the penalties don't follow the rules, and his actions during the 2nd incident are questionable, at minimum.
Regarding the incident on lap 11 (I spent an hour reviewing this on my DVR):
The red lights in the corner are to alert riders of the upcoming red-lighted triple. Stewart was not in violation due to his pass in the corner.
While in the red cross flag section, which also included yellow flags waving, track workers on the track, and a rider remounting, Barcia pulled along side Villopoto but then backed-off, then Villopoto pulled along side Stewart and executed a pass right next to a remounting rider, flags and track workers. He essentially forced Stewart wide in an area that demands extreme caution.
Allowing passes under any caution flag is absurd. A lead rider in a group needs to be able to adjust his speed to the conditions without worrying that a rider behind him can legally pass.
I like Villopoto, and think he was best on the night. But he deserves penalties for both incidents. The biggest problem is the murky rules. They need to fix that now.
@LastBike .....
Red lights mean shut er down, Stewart's pass was no more legal than Villopoto's.
I forgot to add, there’s a reason Yoshimura Suzuki didn’t protest these results after reviewing the video. Both parties were “guilty”.
a. Operational Flags / Lights
4.
Red Flashing Light:
A red flashing light may be displayed at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of jumps. Riders must roll each jump individually with no passing and exercise extreme caution until they are past the area of concern,this includes the sighting or cool down laps.
@SpeedShifter - Enough with the racist remarks.
If anyone else comes across racist comments please do the thread a favor and hit the report button.
@RetardCross: "Red lights mean shut er down, Stewart's pass was no more legal than Villopoto's."
The red lights for triples are explicitly a command to roll the triple with caution. Stewart did that. There is no restriction on passing prior to the triple.
Poto should have waited....bottom line. It was a cowardly pass. @Euromike im posted in germany for the next month my email trev530500@gmail hit me up when you wanna get beat down by a marine. Oh and the rest of my company so bring friends ;)
I can't believe you clowns are still complaining. It was a GREAT night of racing, the points chase heated up, and all the top guys are still healthy! Read "The Moment" if you need an explanation of the rules and why RV's pass was legal. Now stop complaining and enjoy the racing!
Bring on Daytona!!!!
Even Millsaps' team didn't protest RV's win! What does that tell you?
Funny how no one (keyboard racers) are even bringing up the fact that Dungey jumped the same double RV did on lap 3 and passed Millsaps with no penalty. But they all complain that the penalty RV received (for the same thing Dungey did with no penalty) isn't strict enough. Proof of all the RV haters and Stewart lovers with their narrow minded views
@ DirtyNinja, that's what I saw. It actually was that Stewart was aiming for the prot where RV was headed. Again, no harm no foul but it could have been ugly. It would not be the first time Stewart took RV out. He did it 2 years ago with a pick up pass.
I am sure the next time it happens however it will be the last time it happens without retaliation. Great racing, hoping for a dry track in DAYTONA!
"They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah"
Is this an f'n joke, or is that just the AMA? Do these asinine morons not have a clue about the championship implications that this has? How can they just change the rules on the fly to suit the defending champions wishes and still take themselves seriously?
JS got passed with several yellow flags and one Red Cross flag. The red cross flag was right next to a guy with a yellow flag.
Yellow flag passing= legal. if anything the flaggers were confusing people. RV did what a racer should do.....Race. James was confused only by the speed RV showed to catch him and then pass him, fact is RV averaged almost 3/10ths of a lap quicker than JS on the night.
Everybody put your big boy pants on, quit crying conspiracy and get over it.
Oops I was wrong about the Dungey incident. Dunge jumped a double before the lights and passed Millsaps (who rolled the double when he didn't need to). Sorry for the earlier response.
Warrior462 - careful taking every word out of Villopoto's mouth literally right after the race as exact fact. The guy was flustered. He already commented something like "i don't know I guess the red cross means no passing the whole straight away" and we all know this is not true.
U have never seen so many Stewtards in one forum, you guys make Vital look like adults.
Stewart fans crying. Shocker!!!!
RV waxed your boy.
RV is racing to be a champion. James is racing to try and stay relevant.
I bet chaps your @$$'s that RV is worth millions and the most winning rider this year doesn't it? ahhahah
Hate on haters.
The rule book was out and reviewed. What RV did was LEGAL. Stop crying and pull them tampon strings out. You guys are going to need them for next week when RV lays dust in Daytona. Cry baby phags
The best man won!!
RacerX can't handle that.
Can;t wait til the Stewart family and his fans leave this sport. There will be no more crying.. And we can get back to old school racing without all of the PC cry baby BS.
@Persona, what a stupid thing to say. Go piss u urself, pls.
RV was definitely the fastest guy out there - I don't dispute that. He passed James directly after the red cross, and right next to the fallen rider. To me, that is in violation of the no passing rule. RV should have been docked one position after the race for that incident.
This loose application of the rules is a perfect example of the inconsistent nature in which the AMA, and FIM for that matter, apply the rules. And the vagueness of the rule books - everything is open to their interpretation.
LastBikeRM250 wrote:
about 2 hours ago
@RetardCross: "Red lights mean shut er down, Stewart's pass was no more legal than Villopoto's."
The red lights for triples are explicitly a command to roll the triple with caution. Stewart did that. There is no restriction on passing prior to the triple.
I think the fact that Stewart's team didn't protest is enough to say that Stewart was in the wrong as well. Because if he wasn't in the wrong, why wouldn't they protest for the win? I thought both passes were questionable so I'm guessing in the pow wow after the race they decided to call it a wash with both RV and JS at fault. Too much uncertainty to dish out penalties fairly. Factory Suzuki would still want that win, regardless of his position in the points.
I don't ever ever ever want to hear anybody whining about a Stewtard on here again......EVER!! There are easily as many RV-Villotards roaming around on here, as evidenced by this story!! Good lord......only a Villotard would seriously try and make JS the "guilty" one in all of this. Tard-ism at it's finest, courtesy of the RVtard coalition!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.............look in the mirror you Tards!!LOL
I posted this yesterday, but got no bites. Everyone is too busy typing their opinion of JS or RV to even notice.
" MX Bob wrote: about 17 hours ago
Another dirty move by Dungey. They need to ban him before someone gets seriously hurt. "
Every time I hear hater, or tard added to a word, I throw up just a little. Isn't that what rappers said 10-15 years ago? Reminds me of old people day saying hip or groovy.
The rules are ridiculous just from the standpoint that penalties are the sole discretion of the race director. He can hand out warnings, fines, laps, time, positions, etc. and in any amount. He could have docked RV 3 positions or 10 seconds at the finish. He could have made it a lap. The penalties for such infractions sould be set in stone, and only whether it was or wasn't an infraction should be up to the race director. How does a team even argue a point if everything is up to the officials discretion? That being said, glad RV was kept the winner, and glad to finally see some good racing. If Stew was fastest and roles reversed, I'd want him to be the winner. 12 points, 8 rounds to go. RC always the series begins at Daytona. Here we go!
So which Stewtard is now commenting as "Tardpolice"??? Its obvious he is so dumb he cant come up with a name that is already used to describe him--StewTARD" So he adds it to call somebody else... It could be any of them--I really think there is only about 3 of them but they each probably post under 3 or 4 names..And he talks about RV fans, when every post made since Saturday night is whining and crying Stewtards making excuses as to why their got got ran down and passed... its a riot the hypocrites there... Maing excuses like crazy, calling RV a cheater and when guys explain that he didnt break any rules passing their boy, they call them names.. But we have an idea who it is, one of possibly 3 Stewtards out there...
@rdub934--You need to watch again you said "RV passed Stewart right next to a fallen rider" WHAT!!!! For one thing, when Rv and Stewart went passed..Kiniry was already on his bike, sitting on it, so no rider was "fallen" and secondly they passed him, rolled another roller. then started the turn at the end of the straight and then RV passed Stewart.. Not sure which race you watched..
Jason Weigandt’s article, 'The Moment: Red Lights and Yellow Flags’ lays it all out, plain and simple. Should put it to rest... but it probably won’t. Half those reading will still find a reason to disagree with the outcome.
On to Daytona!
I'm willing to bet the outcome would have been difference had this been a privateer or lower tier rider.
@mofo - fallen or upright he is still stationary and vulnerable on the track, and flags were still waving and lights still flashing so their is no difference. Kiniry was two rollers from the turn and there were flaggers on the track - it was just a dangerous move.
Everyone has their own opinion. You are bias towards RV/away from Stewart for whatever reason and I am impartial on the subject since I dislike both riders equally. Lol
I hope they all take note on this and next time there is a penalty there team mate can play dead on the track so the penalty takes place on the restart instead on the end of the race
"...They originally told me, we’re going to dock you after the race. And I’m like, whoa, well you’re restarting so start me now… so then they said okay, yeah, yeah, they must have mis-said what they were originally going to do, and ended up changing it. That was good because whatever happened during the race it’s not like I was stuck with winning and then getting docked. So that was good."
This tells the whole story. RV decides what his penalty should be. One way to fix this problem in the future is to make sure they ride under a red cross flag until a green flag is displayed by one of the flaggers.
Wow! RV is on fire! He didn't just win the race! He brain penetrated a shyteload of people without knowing that himself! Talk about MASSIVE penetration. LOL!!!
How about a little objectivity on this...
1.) RV was penalized 3 positions for jumping under a red flag as called for by the rules; the rules do not specify when this needs to happen
2.) RV second pass with the yellow flags was legal by the rules (and certainly didn't look dangerous by any standards)
Given the above; there's nothing to discuss here... unless of course RV beat your favorite rider :)
thank you claxton......way back up on this thread....a breath of fresh air. after all the....stuff posted on here today would not be possible without the Coombs family.
TY
what would Rickey Jonhston do?
WWRJDO
i will have braclets available by the end of the week.
also....what would Bob [huricane!] Hannah Do?
WWHHDO
WWRCDO
WWTONYSTEWERTDO
RACE.
@therealmofo & Persona, u 2 are real idiots as I see from your childish posts, ya RV really just waxed JS didn't he when their 3 sec apart after 20 laps, get real, do either of u know anything about SX racing? We start out with a good discussion then u have to put you 2 cents in, if u don't have anything good to say just zip it! Can we just focus on the racing & skip the BS, Daytona will separate the men from the boys!
@tardpolice, it's a matter of time before some cop busts you for your fake police lights.
I second what Persona said.
People need to just go read this. AMA's decision on the whole thing and what they saw on watching replays and why they made the decision they made.
http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/03/03/the-moment-red-lights-and-yellow-flags
You can't blame the guy for understanding and taking advantage of the rules.. he is racing for a championship not bragging rights... there is no grey in the rule it is crystal clear:
no passing on red cross - he didn't pass on red cross
passing IS permitted on waving yellow - he passed JS on the yellow
he was interviewed after the race and said he had passed the cross and saw yellow flags and therefore a pass was legal. full straightaway after the red cross or not there was a yellow flag waving so he was permitted to pass.
If anyone is at fault it's the AMA and the flaggers, not RV.
SIMWILSO is right–& I'm not an RV fan. You can't blame RV for trying everything in his arsenal. He's there to win. VERY smart move on his part to suggest the three-position penalty PRIOR to the restart. Placed in that position, any one of the other riders would have suggested the same thing had they thought of it. Don't blame a guy for wanting the championship more than the other guys–that's why he's so freakin' fast–blame the AMA and their gooey "rules".
@04M3GrHd~~ there should have never been a staggered restart. The rules say if 3 laps have been completed that the start will be a staggered start. They did not complete 3 laps prior to the red cross flag. So your point is moot.
Isn't this all the same questions and answers from the podcast on pulpmx?