Christophe Pourcel on the KTM 350
Thursday, October 11, 2012 | 10:35 AM
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PrintCheck out the cover that Christophe Pourcel scored over in France. He's on page one of the new Moto Verte on the KTM 350 he will be racing at the Bercy Supercross in Paris early next month.
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what? no Pourcel hater comments yet?
damn.. and I was all set to stick up for the spoiled little french prick!
guess i'll go do something else...
From what I have read so far, he liked the bike so much after this shootout for Motoverte that he inked a deal with the biggest KTM dealership in France to participate to Bercy. Hope he does well there. No matter what, the guy is amazing to watch on a bike.
It would be interesting to see KTM do a "dual-development" in AMA racing for the 450 & 350. There's renewed interest in the 350 here because of the MXdN and KTM would be smart to take advantage of the buzz.
I still have difficulty believing what my eyes saw after the 350's lukewarm performances here. Carioli, Herlings & 350............respect.
You need to remember the bikes in the GP's are full on works bikes. I would think the HP is what a 450 is.
Well hopefully CP finds a ride that he is happy with. I do agree it is strange the Euros can make those 350's work for them, so what is in those working motors?
I'm truly fascinated by the 350 v. 450 debate, it's as volatile as the 2 stroke v. 4 stroke.
Keep in mind that those are factory 350's modified to the nuts- I have a hard time believing that the slight reduction in reciprocating mass makes that drastic of a difference. I think it's the rider and the way the prefer their power curve. I've never ridden the 350- I'd like to try it.
How about a shootout with Dungey's 450 v. Cairoli's 350 v. the stock versions? Get Davey Coombs on the line.
I was hoping for a VID when I clicked on this.
I'm sure it will be untested and brand new.....@jake look at the difference 9 oz makes in flywheel weight...motors 2 and 4 rev like 250's till 400 then they start getting big bore like....i think the 350-400 range is the ticket as most 4fitys make more than a human (normal human) is capable of using....and if those 350's at the catbox were 'modified to the nuts' and they finished in tact...i'd say there good to go....most guys that were on 350's here didn't do much better on 4fitys. if CP does good its a great bike ..if he doesn't the set up was off and its back to Kawi and the fuzzy blanket....
I hope the Nancy-Boy augers into the dirt and misses all of 2013.
not to freak you "manly" types out, but what is it with riders not being able to color coordinate. Bailey and O'Mara, Johnson and Ward, Lechein and Kehoe - those guys made the sport look way cooler imo. i mean, get it right.
@pizza...why don;t you tell us how you really feel about the guy? wishing injury on someone, SAD!
jones, I agree, that is one of the uglier combinations of gear and mis-match with bike that I have seen in a while
would love to see him under rogers tent with 350 and a one year deal but he and the dunge didn't get along to well back in the day, and right now the dunge is their bread and butter.
@Moooohamad OK, I hope the FrenchFag breaks both of his legs and is out of a career. I also hope the country of France burns to the ground as Muslims dance in the streets.
@ jones & rusty, remember that most of the time, the apparel companies make these guys wear what they want to sell. I think the new mantra is "non-denominational" meaning, their stuff can be worn on any brand...........no matter how ugly.
All the names jones mentioned were JT sponsored riders at one time or another. I don't think it's too much to say we're due for another "retro" design change.
pissacorner, lovely. Ever heard of karma? If somebody ever lends you a bike and you can get going without stalling it, you are now more likely break break your legs.
That's karma.
What I would like to see is a shootout between the US 350 and the GP 350! For some reason the GP 350 looks to be a much better bike. Although the US bike didn't get a fair chance, it needed a better rider than Aleesi was at the time. I still think the GP 350 has more than 350ccs, Roczen made it look good at Daytona and Seattle. I have never been a KTM fan but it's hard not to believe they are more than capable of winning at any level these days. Roger has made a huge impact on the US KTMs and whatever they are paying him is not enough!!! In my opinion Decoster is the most valuable person in all of motocross. Rider or manager he has always won where ever he has worked.
@ pizzacorner, you DO realize the real-life injuries he's suffered are far worse than the stuff you have wished upon him.
I'm certainly no fan of "moody Frenchmen" but, for pete's sake, give it a rest.
@ TWK1, agreed.
I think the G.P. bikes' engine management is where the most is being gained. Traction control, data acquisition, telemetry, all stuff we don't get and they do. It's been several years now that stuff has been in play on a regular basis (over there)and that's enough to make a BIG difference...........I use the difference in piston-port to reed-valve bikes or power-valved to non-PV bikes being a similar distinction.
The gap that once was there between works and modified-production stuff is back and maybe even more important than ever.
About the 350/450 thing.... I have had a long-time interest in crankshaft wheel diameter, it's gyroscopic implications, and the resulting effect on handling.
There is a limit on how oversquare a motor can be, and thus increased displacement means a longer stroke. A longer stroke means larger crankwheels. Every mm of stroke is additional crankwheel, and not just any additional crankwheel mass, but peripheral crankwheel mass, the absolute worst kind as it adds the most gyroscopic effect.
So power, for handling purposes, works out to hp/stroke length. Given that stock 450s make pretty much as much power as the Pros want, then a breathed-on 350 could make near enough power for a 450/Open Class bike. But, designed with the shortest practical stroke, a 350 could end up with a crank gyroscopic component not much worse than a 250.
Back in the 70's a lot of the manufactures played with displacement for Open bikes rather than just go big. I always felt that crank-throw and handling was why. Raced an RM370 after coming off RM250s and it really wasn't THAT different flicking it side to side at revs. Later rode 450s and 500s and none, even the best, ever felt anything like a 250 while throwing it over coming into a corner. Not even close.
Hard to ever agree on what "enough" power is, but if a guy can get "enough" power out of shorter-stroke motor, then that bike (all else equal, even overall bike weight) is the better bike because the smaller AND lighter crankshaft (read giant gyroscope) will result in a more-agile, less-tiring to pitch-in bike. It’s real.
pizzacorner , thats just plain evil! YOu have some serious hate dude, or mabey it's just dark humor! I hope your just being funny in a odd way cause karma lurks in waiting.....
That's his color choice for a front page photo shoot? FUGLY!! I've sh!tted better color combos than that.
Pizzacornhole...wishing injuries on a rider is the lowest form of ignorance. When you wake up staring at the sky...you'll get it.
Put Pourcel on a factory 350 for the year and he could be contending for the occasional win.
@elsinore a longer stroke does NOT necessarily mean larger crank wheels. and unless they can make pistons 1 mm tall there fast approaching the shortest strokes they can have..,...this is the part where I say just buy a RMZ 450....huh cbad? lol......old skool hook up and modern razor like handling.....
He'll quit or get let go before the race.
the guy was out of a ride so rocked up at motoverte test and picked the bike he liked best
i remember chad reed doing something similar and picked honda, a few good races later he was on full factory supported bikes
go cp!!
I love watching CP ride but he must be a right prick to have on a team. For a consistant top 5 GP rider struggling to get a ride he's doing something very wrong. He does give up pretty easy, like that time he forgot his chest protector. Most riders would push through the pain.
Alot of todays gear looks like clown pajamas that another clown puked on. OK for some of the young guys, but the older riders look ridiculous in it.
Pizzacornholer-Thats good tone.Any way Pizza loser boy why don't you take your CP377-Ryan Hughs-Organic food hatin D rider loser attitude on over to your favorite cornhole forum so all of you cornholers can cornhole each other.
ride111mph wrote: about 7 hours ago
You need to remember the bikes in the GP's are full on works bikes. I would think the HP is what a 450 is.
You need to remember that the 450 were all full on works bikes and I would think the HP is what a 550 is.
@ ElsinoreRacer, excellent post! I love engine design / theory.
I think where your post ends is where crank offset begins. Honda & Yamaha both do it to achieve mechanical advantage and / or preferred engine charactaristics.
My question is: IF a motor was made that produced 50hp (for sake of rounding #'s) and gave the most desirable handling effects, would that be better than the motor of a competeing company that made 53.5hp and handled like a bush pig?
Furthermore, what if the best handling motor gave the worst power delivery? Usually this is not the case as electric-type powerbands are preferred over light switches or rev-rangers except in the most extreme applications. Obviously, that's why R&D folks have a job but, I hope you see my point.
A great example is the RMZ450, handles like a champ, runs like a chump..................@ tonewall, I hope you can appreciate the lengths it took to get my daily dose of Suzuki-bashing in. I had to type an entire article and meander all the way back around to the no-love-for-yellow part. THAT my friend, is devotion.
The 2013 KTM350 has 54hp.Mxa will have a shootout on the 450s plus the 350 in the Jan issue.
@Cbad ...i would be more appreciative of your Scientology Guru like devotion to bashing the RMZ if it didn't really haul ass , turn effortlessly and exhibit old skool power characteristics (traction and predictable power delivery) without a bunch of "new and obviously untested " bells and whistles " like a link....lol....the truth is its a combination of things to make a great bike and a rider who feels comfortable with ALL those things to really create a monsta....some really great bikes just don't work for certain riders and then they just go get a Suzuki.... Crank offset is mostly to get the piston to turn the corner a little easier and "not rock"....kind of like a euro disco band dressed in orange hare' krishna robes with KTM embroidered on the back on a stage that looks like a beach volleyball court singing that Village people song...." M X D N why don't we go to the M X D N.....".......
With a top guy riding the 350 its a winning bike. Alessi rode the bike and has as many moto wins on the 350 as he got on the 450 this year. I actually think Alessi had more holeshots on the 350. I know short did.
Andrew short and Mike Alessi finished the same on 350's as they did on 450's
Nothing wrong with the bike. Just needs a top rider
tonewall, cannot agree with you. The distance from crankshaft center to center of the crankpin (big end of the connecting rod) is 1/2 the stroke. Longer stroke means the crankpin has to be further from the crankshaft center. The crankwheel has to enclose all this, and therefore has to be bigger. It's geometry, not opinion.
Piston height has nothing to do with stroke length, unless we were talking about modifying an existing engine, and would only apply if we were trying to lengthen the stroke (so the skirt would clear the crankwheels).
Lower limit on stroke length is related to the implications for the combustion chamber, squish, etc.
Carlsbad, don’t know much about crank offsets other than positive effects on engine braking. I didn't address power characteristics vs handling, just the gyroscopic thing. But there is no doubt power delivery affects handling. On that topic, I think I am in the minority on this point, but I think from the handling standpoint a smooth (non-stepped) delivery is best for handling (and managing traction). Problem is, bikes like that don’t “feel” fast. A big step, or hit, in the powerband feels faster. Not a design issue, I know, but a sales one.
@ tonewall, yeah, like Frankenweenie said, you can hate on me, just don't hate on the music.....haha.........I'm thinking you might have burned that whole "new & untested" thing right to the ground...........
@ ElsinoreRacer, With so many variables, the possibilities are endless. I would love for somebody to pay me to do R&D on these subjects...............problem is, anybody with R&D budgets for bikes are overseas. I probably wouldn't get along with anybody at the "Happy Joy Motor Company" in Beijiing.
@cbad ..don't hate anybody ......and....no its still workin...@Elsinore ...you CAN move the crank pin WITHOUT enlarging the crank...TMR , Falicon(and many others)have been been doing it for years. It is fact i'm not guessing or making it up..... Balance factors , crankcase clearance and pin location stresses do become a factor in the extreme. Look at a ultra short stroke piston (CRF) and a Norton (old school long stroke) piston and tell me stroke doesn't effect piston design... I don't confess to knowing even close to 'it all '..but I know a bit ,and not really looking to argue here as there are truly are ALOT of variables...it is interesting to me though , and I would rather be wrong and learn , than to just blab on about Havoc7's place in history anyday............and for @frickenweener ...how come your top one hundred only went to 8...lol...meds kicked in?
You can't not love watching him ride, but f**k, he needs to pull his finger out. His giving up lets him down. When he come back to Europe I thought he was gonna gic AC a run for his money. Which he can do on his good weekends but on his bad weekends he might as well have me out there. At least I'd get over the line (abelt about half a hour after the rest of the lads).
I would be happy to watch him in the GP's and AMA as I follow both equally, I just want to see him put in a good season.
He is also the most sterio typical French person I have ever know.
I kinda thought "opps upside your head" shoulda been in there...........@ frankenweinie....
I am just as offended by people saying what a great rider/person this human shit-box is blah blah blah. The guy is a complete douche and I hope he folds.
Gotta chime in on this one.
First off I have a 06 RMZ450 I bought from the national race team up here (Canada) Lots of mods and aftermarket stuff.... the coolest....fastest bike I've ever owned! Really only bought it as it was a good deal because I'm a 2stroke guy. (43yrs old)
After a few spins and some time to get used to the power delivery I fell in love with the thumper....as Tonewall says old school power with the trademark Suzulki handling!
But definitely too much power for the majority of my riding which is off road. To that point I just recently traded in my KTM 250sx (smoker) and bought a brand spanking new XC350! Pains me to say I may never push the Zook out of the shop again?
The KTM 350 is the best designed, prepared and race ready (stock) bike I've ever thrown a leg over! Do not doubt the ability and potential of this manufacturer and to support Tonewall's rants.......KTM is one of the most proven bikes out there and have more R&D resources than any other manufacturer going right now.
Ignorance gets another holeshot!
Thanks to all you Pourcel haters for reminding me why some have lost a bit of respect for parts of the Moto scene open forum.
Talk of strokes and crankpins demonstrate thoughtful discourse. (gotta respect someone who interjects Spandau ballet on a moto forum too ) but the nationalistic thoughtlessness embarrasses me a bit. Get over your exceptionalism
Regardless of which size bike he is on, our soap opera supercross season would be even better if Christophe were here pissing off the bloggers.
Different strokes for different folks
Bring back cp377
@ Frankenweenie
Wicked Haikucross man
Word
@ripdown good luck with the new ride.the 350 is a great bike..contrary to popular beliefs....I like KTM's they have made great bikes a long time and the 200 and 400 exc are some of my all time favorite trail bikes ...what I don't really care for are some of the new KTM guys who think just cause they've just now discovered them ..everything else sucks ,...its just not the case...guys have been winning cross country races (previously KTM's claim to fame)on Jap 2 pops also for a long time as well and now even the 450 is winning..Gas Gas even makes an incredible 250/300.... these days its hard to find a BAD new bike ...they all have there place. I relate some (not all by any means) new KTM owners to what in the biz we used to call "bmw" guy ...just because they own one doesn't put you in the superiority club or increase your knowledge of what really works and what doesn't...its just a motorcycle with its own set of problems and good points just like the RMZ..or KXF etc etc...there just not the damn holy grail....
Tonewall.....I hear ya on the BMW club. The 250sx I just traded in, I bought new in 2004.....
PS......I felt bad after my earlier post and hopped on the Zook as soon as I got home.....just icing my forearms now......
Grace!
I can't wait to see Trey on the gate again!
thanks
i would like to c if CP would do well on Reed's team for a 1 year deal? isnt reed still looking for a top rate guy? i do think it could be a total hit or miss if it ever did happen.
As an owner, Reed wouldn't take any crap from C.P. I would assume. I think the BTO / Butler team sounds like a great fit and opportunity for both parties also.
Pourcel just declared he won't enter the 2013 MX1 World championship, he will probably stay in France for its French national championship