Saturday Night Live
Sunday, February 3, 2013 | 5:30 AM
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PrintThe track for this Anaheim didn’t draw raves. Most said they couldn’t find a flow on it. And, it was super slick, made even slicker when a drizzle came down just before the start of the 450 main event. Really difficult conditions to race in, and really, it came down to putting in smooth laps. And you know who is good at that?
Ryan Dungey sometimes gets criticized for not showing enough emotion or aggressiveness, but his temperament was the perfect one for a night like this. He kept his cool when his shock broke in the heat, pulled off a clutch ride in the LCQ, and then put that all behind him in the main to take the win. “I just tried to stay positive,” he said. “The team, they just said they were so sorry. But I’ve made mistakes, too, and they don’t get on me.”
Dungey said the hardest part of the night was adjusting back to the spring shock, which he hadn’t used in a few weeks. The team literally slapped it on there for the LCQ and sent him out for the LCQ. “I just had to trust that it was going to work,” said Dungey. “Once I got through the whoops for the first time, it felt good, and then I knew it was going to be okay.”
Davi Millsaps’ points lead is now up to 14. That’s pretty darn good. He also won his heat race. No reason to even bring up this, “Is he for real?” stuff anymore because it’s obvious that he is
Stewart vs. Millsaps in the main. And note the rain. And the rhyme.
Cudby photo
Reed and Andrew Short had a good duel for fifth, Reed came out on top. As for Short's team deal, he said he hopes to know more about his long-term plans by next weekend.
Cudby photo
Stewart was fast and looked solid early, but he definitely ran out of steam around the halfway mark, and wasn’t as aggressive. James told us after the race that he wasn’t tired, he was just trying to make sure he kept it on two wheels and get a solid finish after a bad few weeks.
What a night for KTM. They swept the 250 and 450 main events for the first time ever. They had two 450 riders in the top ten in points for the first time ever (Dungey and Matt Goerke). And, the KTM Jr. SX Challenge returned for the first time in years, and they totally swept it!
Jake Weimer took a handlebar to the stomach early in the race and had to pull off, he was being checked by the Asterisk medic team after the race.
Probably not the race Canard wanted, with some crashes. He took seventh but did hold off Villopoto down the stretch. With every point counting, you never know what this will mean in the end.
Cudby photo
A few more crashes from Trey Canard, who also had a few last week. He dug deep to salvage seventh. Late in the race, Villopoto was closing in, and they both got around Broc Tickle to gain a spot, and then Canard kept Villopoto at bay through the finish.
Rough night for Zach Osborne, who was hoping to finally log a clean night after dealing with a nagging shoulder injury for a few weeks. Instead, he crashed in his heat and the main event in the same spot. The heat race crash knocked him into the LCQ, which he won, but the main event crash dropped him from fifth to 11th.
Cole Seely had similar troubles, he was battling near Tomac for a shot at the podium until a crash left him way back. He finished 12th and gave up second in points to Tomac.
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So stoked for Dungey- that was one hell of a win! Can't help but wonder "what if" for Reed in this one!
Stewart's comment is interesting... no excuses there! I see more yellow on the box next week... perhaps ever a win... it's great to see him race himself into form instead of the old "were not ready yet" Much more mature JS this season. Anyway, I'm loving this season it's bloody awesome! :-) Go speedy Reedy! :-)
Ryan Dungey lights the candles!
Does anyone on here think Bubbles will be around for the nationals?
So he can be around to sign autographs for his fans like he stated on tv.
Thats never stopped him before.
Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda can be said for RedBull / KTM Team tonight, as the event coulda, woulda, shoulda been a whole lot different.
I was amazed how matter of fact he was when the gate dropped for his Heat race.
Ah Shucks, Flat Shock, Dang!
That cool head display doesn't even come close to the LCQ. To no fault of his own, by-standing innocently and finding himself in (nearly) last place to begin the shortened format to begin with.
Then he starts on the farrrrr outside gate-punish (as opposed to pick) for the main, and comes up with (almost) a handful of holeshot.
The planets were aligned for Dungey tonight, and for one, I am very happy for him and the entire RedBull/KTM team for keeping what could have been a disastrous night and turning it into Fresh Squeezed SoCal Orange Crush. Bravo, Bravo !!!
Good On You, Ryan Dungey!
With all the press all week long about the same 2 or 3 guys over and over, and nothing for Dungey from the writes, he gets a win.. Good for him, after the debacle from KTM and them trying to force that stupid air-shock down his throat.. I hope he tells them were to stick that thing.. Racing supercross is now place to try and test and work out bugs of something like that..That had to be embarressing to KTM..
Congrats DUNGEY & Team KTM !!!!!!!!! Well deserved and well earned !!!!!
Short sure can ride production !! lol!!! get rid of the factory crap !!
Way to go Ken, Ryan, and the whole KTM Team. People are making a too big a deal about the air shock failing. Some times things happen, there has always been set backs with new technology, EFI wasn't perfect when it came out.
Anybody else catch that Raplh doesn't know 250 heat's are only 6 laps?
I'm impressed with all kinds of people this season, but Short's last 2 races on a mostly-stock bike are pretty impressive.
"Just make it work", said Ryan Dungey. Well put. I think some riders use not having the bike "perfect" for an excuse or let it get into their head. Anger and aggression can make up for a lot.
Also was impressed with Barcia. Smart ride. Might be a bit a rivalry between him and Davi. We all know where Barcia trained when younger.
Mitch calls out his guys and Davalos gets a strong 2nd and Tyla DNQs. Maybe he should just start getting ready for the 450 outdoors now.
@bd200 decoster said last night that dungey chose the airshock because it has a better feel. so not sure if they are forcing it on him. but i agree this is not place to be testing something of this magnatude on saturday night ! congrates to team red bull ktm !
I am so happy that air shock lost pressure on the starting line and not in the heat of battle or over a triple. The good things Ryan does paid off last night, karma was on his side 2/2/2013. Air suspension will be the future, spring suspension design will always be fighting itself, air must be more plush. I say continue to use the air shock, be brave in a weak world. If he wins the championship with an air shock everybody has air shock next year? And last is this shock-gate?
Is there a championship provisional in Supercross or no? i coulda of swore there was a year Reed took one in 08 in Detroit? Am i wrong or no??
Podium picture is awesome!
Where are all the comments about Reed!!!! Seems to me he is the guy who cant keep it on 2 wheels and is a hazard out there, a danger to the other riders.
He has taken out more riders in 2 weeks than guys have in their whole careers!!
.
Everyone had all alot to say about Stewart crashing all the time and being a safety issue to everyone else.
Hmmmm!
Looks like there is a new wrecking ball in town and he is #22!!
I love RV's riding but if he keeps this up JS7 is going to become the World's Second Fastest Lawn Dart!
Way to go Dunge!! It may seem unlucky, but its a damn good thing that the shock failed when it did. If it'd been in the main....
Way to go KTM ! I would have loved to be in the pits with them last night ! Great race. We got our tickets late, so we had to sit up higher. Thne the rain came we stayed dry, and Dungey won ! Great night !
Didnt mean to leave K Roc out, way to go Kenny !
CORRECTION: Matt Lemoine says he ran over Weimer's chest. He had no where to go, it was an accident.
Get it together, Weege. Matthes (aka fatass) is such a lazy influence on you. Quit running with him after food and alcohol and just do the story. Missing a little food and sleep won't fricken kill you guys one night out of the week.
I think they got rid of the provisional rule a few years ago, but I'm not positive. Seems like RV would have used it in 2011 when he didn't qualify in Atlanta(?).
Great race but attendance looked weak like A2-- get those races out of California and into some new markets!
I do remember Nick Wey using provisionals 5 or 6 years ago...
Yes Wrecked34 I'm ready for some big East Coast crowds and I can't wait to go to Atlanta!!!
I noticed all the top guys congratulated Dungey except whiny Reedy. He's staring to act like he did years ago when RC and JS were beating his butt every week...
I used all-air suspension a long time ago, and here are some of the problems:
- There is so much pressure that the seals are just begging to blow.
- Although the suspension was fine landing off of big jumps or hammering whoops, it sucked on deflection bumps in the turns. It wanted to deflect.
- I felt like the added pressure tried to aerate the oil, affecting the dampening (not damping - you dampen vibration, you don't damp it). Although nitrogen is far less likely to aerate the oil (nitrogenate, that is), when you pressurize things, they try to combine.
Surely these guys have done more work than I did on making it perfect, but you still have this problem that you cannot avoid:
- There is so much pressure that the seals are just begging to blow.
You might be able to avoid the nitrogenation of the oil, you might get the dampening right to work well with the air so it doesn't deflect on deflection bumps, but the pressure is just too much for the seals to be reliable. The idea is good on paper, not so good in execution. Don't get me wrong, I would love to get rid of the unsprung weight inherent in the spring(s), but it's certainly not worth sacrificing reliability. Making it through every race of a series, and every race of the year, is paramount. Nobody wants to try unproven technology on their own championship series, especially those who have a shot at a decent plate.
When I said air, I meant nitrogen.
Dungey had rough night for sure. He also had a hard get off in practice, so with the cards being stacked against him, he sure came out on top. The attendence was not that good, their were many empty seats there. As for the track not flowing, this was the most technical track of the season so far. We watched a lot of the group B&C riders during practice struggle. I think both Stewart and Barcia rode a smart race, just keep it on 2 wheels and finish.
Teep99 I hear you man Reed is lame if Stewart or grant were takin people down like he is there would be all kinds of whining. It's especially lame that Reed is stopping guys that are faster than him, he's barely able to pass short ( and short is on a production bike) anyway I wish chode would get out of the way so we can watch the fast guys race.
@SpeedShifter- why cant they just make bigger beefier seals to accomodate the max pressure? And lots of riders are using air forks now too. It seems like they could make it more reliable- flat tires dont occur too often in racing.
@ speed shifter:
Damping refers to energy dissipation. Dampening is the act of getting something damp or wet.
Damping is the correct term for the shock, which is a damper, not a dampener.
The nitrogen is never in contact with the oil. They use a IFP, internal floating piston.
The seals are fine, hydraulic seals have an inner lip that are designed to parachute and work better with higher pressure. The more the pressure, the better the seal. Otherwise hydraulic rams with 5000psi wouldn't work.. Landing off a triple, Imparts thousands of pounds of force on the shock seal.. It has nothing to do with the air chamber..
You should reread how they work.
Well...I should read how they work. Good point, very true.
However, I'll say this. With conventional forks with springs and no air pressure or little pressure, the seals are fine, but still they occasionally blow. If you leave the bike tied down with the forks compressed for very long, they blow sooner. If you remove the springs and use air pressure only, when I was doing it, it took about 50 psi. With more volume and fatter tubes, I don't know what the pressure would be these days. Fork seals blow easier with high pressure.
If the seals are tighter with more pressure, then you've got a major stiction problem, which is not good.
A while back, a rear shock with a spring had something on the order of 150 psi. If you remove the spring, what kind of psi are you running? If it's a lot higher, you have a higher chance of blowing a seal. If you make the seal tighter, you have a major stiction problem.
Hydraulics operate very slowly compared to a motocross bike's suspension through stutters and bottoming out off big jumps. A lot of stiction doesn't matter on a hydraulic ram. Hydraulic fluid has a much higher density than nitrogen. Therefore, nitrogen would leak out of that system a lot easier than hydraulic fluid.
It doesn't take a genius to realize that higher pressures equal higher chances to blow a seal. Even I can understand that one.
Everybody used to say "dampening." Then somebody at a magazine pushed for everybody to call it "damping." The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition suffices for me.
damp·ened damp·en·ing
Definition of DAMPEN
transitive verb
1
: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of
It appears that the first definition of dampen or dampening is to check or diminish the activity or vigor of something, namely something like the wildly bucking action of an undampened shock spring.
Just because somebody goes on a life mission of changing the spelling of a common term doesn't change the meaning of the original term, or make it obsolete. Dampening is still dampening, just like if you dampen vibration by rubber mounting, shock mounting or otherwise reducing the activity or vigor of that which needs to be dampened.
Just to satisfy those who question what I'm saying, I looked up "damping" in the same Merriam-Webster online dictionary, and it referred me to "damp," and here it is:
Definition of DAMP
1
: a noxious gas — compare black damp, firedamp
2
: moisture:
a: humidity, dampness
barchaic: fog, mist
3
a: discouragement, check
barchaic: depression, dejection
The correct term for suspension is DAMPENING. Spread the word.
JS fans teeps99 and Joel347 are jealous over CR...haha!!! A typical JS fan...whining about somebody else whining...too funny. Face it Stewart fans, JS is no longer a dominant racer. Is he fast? Absolutely, especially when he doesn't care if he crashes or not but when he wants to stay on 2 wheels he is nothing more than a top 5 guy. Will he win one, I think so, eventually, but so will CR and TC. It is just not his turn yet.
I'd hate to be marketing that air shock with that embarrassing starting gate video out there :)
Reed looks out of place for the first time in memory; reminds me of Windham a bit before the quit.
Dungey' s play it safe approach is looking smart once again this season as other riders emplode.
JS lost a step midrace due to conditioning imo and backed it down to keep it rubber side down and fatique slipped in.
Good job by Bam Bam finishing a race; the right thing to do given that last two weeks. Challenge for the win once you get the consistency back after maybe one more safe ride.
Millsapps impressive; i can't get years of 'fade' out of my head, but he's gettin me there.
Roxen, slick
Tomac, hungry
Davalos, impressive
There is only a "mulligan" for getting into the night show..which is a rider who is top ten in points missing fast 40 in qualifying will get a 21st gate in heat race...once.
Was it me or did that front view of DM and MA coming together look like one of those famous cross jumps by the 800?
Impressive to # 5 pull away!
Crazy time! Man, that shock deal with Dungey came at the right time. The way it looked, it was as if it went flat within a moment. As someone else said, never mind if it had happened at the start of the main.....what if it happened as he went through the whoops or off a jump?! As we see an air shock getting closer and closer to being on production bikes, is the phrase "I gotta flat shock" going to become a common answer to "what happened out there?"? I really hope we just see Dungey running a spring on that thing from here out. People can say whatever they want about how an air shock works, but we all just saw one go flat in front of our eyes so it apparently is very possible. Great ride by Dungey on all accounts (especially the clutch LCQ performance).
Question on the tracks. What are they doing these days where the tracks are always being considered slippery and slick by the riders? It wasn't that long ago that only one or two tracks were known as being so slick. Now it seems to be normal procedure. This track was being called slick BEFORE any rain ever came. Part of the issue with these races becoming boring, in my opinion, is that they can't attack the track. Those who do well just settle into position and "survive" by staying up. Case in point, Davi followed James around until he found a spot to slip by but Stewart had no interest in fighting because is goal was to "just stay up", in his own words. This was probably the only instance of actual racing I recall from the 450's and there really was no interest in racing between the two of them. I watched the 1990 ATL race and 1990 San Diego races back to back Saturday and the tracks were SO different. SO many more places to battle. Rhythm sections are not conducive to battling at all.
@ B-KR.....If they're using the same dirt at each venue year after year it could contribute to the track surface changing year to year as it gradually dries out more and more or something. With regards to Millsaps vs Stewart, I just think Millsaps and Barcia were riding better and capitalized on Stewart's mistakes by puttin themselves in a good position behind him. I don't think Stewart backed himself down from 2nd to off the podium, he just got beat.
Your not understanding me. First, the spring on a shock has nothing to do with Internal pressure. It's static and simply holds the weight of the bike up, and helps add to resistance of the shock compressing.
It you had ZERO nitrogen pressure in the bladder or behind the IFP, you get cavitation. That is one reason you need a charge of nitrogen. Second, the lower the pressure, the higher the risk of losing a seal. It's the pressure in the shock that stops cavitation, squashes foam, AND helps the seal close tight to the shaft.
Seals usually get hard when they are old, oil companies put seal conditioner In the oil to combat this. Usually it's chatter against the shaft or foreign debris that puts a tiny rip in the seal and they leak.
The higher the pressure, the better the seal.
When you compress the shock, all your doing is displacing the oil from the shock shaft someplace else.
FOX EVO shocks are bar none the BEST OF THE BEST shocks in the world on snowmobiles and they never have a failure. Guess what, they only use 160psi like your bike. They have multiple pistons moving creating more resistance. Dungeys bike doesn't have 800psi of nitrogen in it like your thinking.
If you think tying your bike down with the forks compressed causes them to leak, we should t even be having this conversation.
Your shock and forks are hydraulic, and they work fast.
yeah, I didn't mean Stewart backed down to 4th, but he also was not interested in fighting for it and risking going down. Barcia said the same thing, basically just stay up and wherever he finished he finished and would be happy. He was happy to pass Stewart after his bobble, but he wasn't pushing the issue.
I don't know what the deal is with the tracks/dirt/etc. but it impacts the racing when everyone is riding around like they are on ice and have the main goal of not falling. I think they are taking the dirt and adding other substances to get it to compact better, less ruts, less breakdown but for whatever reason something is different.
for those that say CR is slow;look @ avg lap times this sx season, & he got up to 5th place from almost last ..do you know he`s gone nearly a year without racing..every year i reed the comments,the recent year CR & Poto raced the mx season,CR doesn`t have the speed & never will to beat poto,well Reed beat him like a bad habbit..1,2,3,4,..5x`s that season. Reed will be up there again. No racer has finishedtop 3 more than CR. His accomplishments are factual & better than every racer with exception,arguably,stewi,think stewi has two more sx wins than CR..CR has more podiums than any racer in sx ever. And in this race, A3, he came from wey back to finish fith. As the season goes on,he`s going to do what he always does, has & will....
@b-kr...Ever heard of monster trucks?
Speed-
An example of how some FOX air shocks work, they have 2 floating pistons, 2 separate air chambers.
If you have a small .5 diameter piston on the outer chamber, and a larger 1.5" diameter piston on the inner chamber, that is 3x larger. Square that, and you have 9x more force exterted. So, if you have 150psi on the outer chamber of nitrogen, then the inner chamber is extering 1350psi on the shock body.
Failures happen.. I'm sure its not a faulty design. The shock has worked great for weeks, but like most R&D.. you find out how to make it more bullet proof.
The shock had no dampENING, he lifted the seat up and it fell. I am going to assume he lost oil, not pressure.. however I have NO IDEA how they accomodate the valving for this thing.
Remember Ricky Carmichael breaking a shock spring a few years ago? Its happens. I agree.. thank God it wasnt during the race, that would be disasterous for his well being!!