30 Day Countdown to A1: #13 Kevin Windham
Sunday, December 23, 2012 | 7:00 PM
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PrintThere are so many parameters to consider with the Racer X Monster Energy 30 Day Countdown to Anaheim. Riders can be judged on so many levels--mere stats based on wins, titles, starts or podiums. Their outright speed and the competition they beat in their prime. There's certainly credit that needs to be given for longevity, too.
Not surprisingly, Kevin Windham is one of the hardest riders to place in this group. His career and style defy standard definition--he is very much his own man, with his own legacy and his own unique career.
By the record book alone, Windham stands out in two big categories, with an impressive 18 career wins, tying him for tenth all time. He's also second in career supercross starts, with a shot at taking the all-time mark from Mike Larocco if he can keep things going for two more full seasons.
Windham has 18 career supercross wins.
Simon Cudby photo
Windham can also say he's beaten the best. He has lined up against the top four riders on the all-time SX win list, Jeremy McGrath, Ricky Carmichael, James Stewart and Chad Reed, and still come out with those 18 wins. Perhaps no rider has faced as many top riders as Windham has. We should also mention that.
Windham's grace and class and made him one of the most popular riders ever, although we kept the voting in this countdown to racing-related accomplishments.
Unfortunately, there is one accomplishment Windham doesn't have--a premier-class Supercross championship. And while he has beaten the best, he never quite did it consistently enough. Windham has spent many years right in the mix with the greats, but not a significant stretch of time where anyone would say he was, clearly, without argument, the fastest supercross rider in the world.
But that's not to spin this negative. Supercross is a better place for having had the Louisiana-turned Mississippi rider in it, and his contributions still aren't complete. We've placed Kevin Windham as #13 on the all-time SX list, and that's pretty damned good.
Windham is the second active rider to make the list.
Simon Cudby photo
#14 David Bailey
#15 Ryan Dungey
#16 Mike Bell
#17 Jeff Emig
#18 Johnny O’Mara
#19 Doug Henry
#20 Jimmy Ellis
#21 Mike LaRocco
#22 Ezra Lusk
#23 Broc Glover
#24 Ron Lechien
#25 Jimmy Weinert
#26 David Vuillemin
#27 Donnie Hansen
#28 Larry Ward
#29 Mike Kiedrowski
#30 Marty Tripes
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Kevin Windham 13th!? What!? I'm sorry but that's wrong, really wrong
K-Dub might be charismatic and all that but he has never been the fastest guy around, not even for a full month. LaRocco was the fastest guy inside a supercross for some short time, Bailey was, Dungey was, Lusk was, Emig was... anyone that hasn't been the fastest man around for at least a month should be placed like 20th or further back
Main event starts don't mean much when you've been riding a factor or semi-factory bike for the past 15 years. This is not a sport where 15 people have competitive material, only like 12 per class do so if you have a factory or semi-factory machine under your control is not hard at all to stay there. Make a list with the most top10s or top5s ever, I'm sure Windham will drop quite a lot
PS : I know it's hard to do this kind of list but, please, put a bit more brain into it, this is starting to look like the kind of list 5 middle-aged alcohol-filled dudes would do after discussing for 30 minutes
Ummm, ex-squeeze me? Baking powder? People without a title, should not be ahead of people who have titles. Simple as that. Criteria for this list should have been: # of championships, # race wins, # podiums, longevity.
All due respect to Kdub, the dude is one of my all time favs. But to say he is better than Bell, Emig, Bailey, Hansen, Omara, and Dungey is straight up ridiculous. Everybody that has raced professionally has raced legendary competition. What somebody "could have done if not for so and so" is not as impressive as what somebody else actually did.
First, Windham has won a title (or two). Second, if you read the first few paragraphs before posting, you might want to work on your reading comprehension skills.
You guys have been waiting for days to unleash on either Kdub or The Beast, whichever got listed first. Either of them could be considered top 5 if you use certain criteria.
Really, you guys act like this list is taking something out of your pocket!
Great Racer his battles with JMG. were the best.. and winning Charlotte NC. as an active 125 rider ....anyone else do that????
Nothing against KW or his accomplishments, but it is pretty obvious that Jason never saw half the riders on the list on the track.
You are all losers... KW is da man and you can suck it
Well, I will have to respectfully agree with the rubdub that Emig should probably be ranked here simply because not only did he beat McGrath like Windham, he won a championship.
I feel like Larocco and Windham are similar, so I would like to petition to have LaRocco moved up higher on the list next to Windham. Where do I sign??
I would love KDub to pick back up where he left off when he crashed while pressuring James. Old man was hauling the mail!
die996 I don't understand your reasoning in your comment. Windham SHOULD be on this list. Before I clicked on this website, I decided to pick the remaining 13 riders who I thought should be on this list. I picked Windham at #13. When I was done I checked to see who Racer X picked for 13th on the list. Apperently we both agreed on KDub. Although he does not have a championship, his amount of wins, the riders he has beat, his talent, and longevity is why I put him him there. My remaining list is 12.Barnett, 11.Bayle 10.Stanton, 9.Bradshaw, 8.Ward, 7.Villopoto, 6.Hannah, 5.Johnson, 4.Reed, 3.Stewart, 2.Carmichael, 1.McGrath. I changed my mind many times from 8th through 12th, but based it on many different things.
Corndog - Windham's titles were regional. Any number of regional titles does not amount to as much as a national or world championship. It is clear that RacerX set out with good criteria, but they are deferring to fanboy bias over logic.
Hammerhead - Windham and Bradshaw should not be higher on the list than the champs farther back the list. Henry should not be higher than LaRocco, Lusk, DV, or several others that he beat out.
So, when evaluating a rider's achievements, it's only by premiere class titles? Sorry, I must have missed that 'rider evaluation rule' in my handbook. I think you may be misusing the word "logic" and are using it in place of "what I think". You have your own criteria and it doesn't match RacerX's criteria, so what? Put together your own magazine and the publish articles in a way that makes sense to yourself (then you can watch others whine about it).
LMAO!!!!
If RacerX says he is 13, then he is 13.
Stamp it!
OK, everyone just calm down. With all this turmoil I can't believe no one mentioned the fact that he once dated James Stewart's sister.
Ooops! Did I say James Stewart.
In the RAIN......#1 PERIOD....end of story.
hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! Awesome!!!....
K dub is people's champ! Plus his 18 main event wins, plus his longevity, his insane transfer jumps in the dark. IMO, he deserves the credit! If only he could keep that speed, when he was pushing bubba, consistently, we would have another title contender.
I guess someone will always whine...
K dub is people's champ! Plus his 18 main event wins, plus his longevity, his insane transfer jumps in the dark. IMO, he deserves the credit! If only he could keep that speed, when he was pushing bubba, consistently, we would have another title contender.
I guess someone will always whine...
Apologize for double post! Damn " not-so-smart" phone!
Even if you count regional, winning a 6 to 9 race series against HALF of the best developing riders in the country is not as impressive as winning the 15-17 race premier class championship against stacked fields. But, IMHO, counting regional achievements skews the results in favor of riders who came along during and after 1985 - no regional/support class before that.
RacerX is, sadly, the best total source of info in USMX. That is why I put up with a lot of their opinion based excrement like this. And a lot of times I can see the fun in it. But this is a hot button topic in MX. I am allowed to call them out for bias if I want to - and this reeks of bias.
Supercross has had dominate riders in every era of the sport going back to Bob Hannah. The dominate riders won the majority of the races and championships, which left very few others to capture wins. The few riders that were able to do this (some riders,not all) deserve to be on this list. Riders like Windham and Bradshaw for example. Although these two riders never won a championship they beat some of the sports best. Windham won during the McGrath/Carmichael/Reed/Stewart era, Bradshaw during the Stanton/Bayle era. That's saying something.
"""Great Racer his battles with JMG. were the best.. and winning Charlotte NC. as an active 125 rider ....anyone else do that????"""
THIS.
This guy has beaten the BEST straight up at one time or another and lets not forget people... Vegas 2011..... Windham was about to hand stewart his as$ on a silver plate untill all hel1 broke loose. He deservers this spot or better.
I think the first paragragh sums it up....who else has beaten that many of the best riders ever...straight up..there are alot of considerations and not just die996's know it all but doesn't really style reasoning.....before you start telling people to put more brain power into something you need to pull your head out of your a*s ,get the record books out and do a little research of your own...maybe watch some races that happened before you joined the sport (like 3 or 4 years ago i would bet at the most)..Maybe the best style on a motorcycle ever.... That and longevity do count in THE REAL world. Yeah some of us are 'biased' toward KDUB....with plenty of DA*MN good reasons to be .....if you ever saw him in his prime against RC or Mc you would get it....
@VooDoo
Not quite sure if it means anything, but I must agree with you. The whole thing is somewhat comical which also makes it entertaining.
But the real fun will begin at A1!!!
To be honest I'm quite damn tired that list is based on a ton of hypotetical shit
Like "if Henry didn't get so much injured", "if Larocco started better or races were longer"
RacerX guys, do you know that we live in something called the real World?? Do you know that if you get injured it's because you pushed too far?? McGrath is a great one because he remained with small or no injuries for almost a decade and won a ton, same for RC, CR22 is close to that but he hasn't won as much, JS7 has won a lot but he has crashed a lot too... Maybe David Bailey could've been the greatest of his time but, guess what, he almost killed himself, same for Johnson, Stanton and some others. Following your criteria, Mark Martin has to be one of the best 10 drivers in NASCAR history and that's as wrong as it gets ;-)
Once again, if longevity is so important for Windham, why is not LaRocco so low??
PShaw- championships have to be be the ultimate first factor in this process, the factories pay MILLION DOLLAR bonuses for championships. They don't pay for longevity, or care if you beat someone a few times. To put Stanton #10 is unacceptable.
At the end of 1992, Jeff Stanton was considered the second best supercross racer ever.. Only Hannah had as many championships. By 1996 he was third best.. After Carmichael he was 4th. I would be supremely disappointed if Stanton wasn't top 5. And since popularity seems to be important, Stanton is a legend overseas. You know that track we got obliterated on this summer at the MX of Nations?? Ya Stanton put on a clinic at Lommel. And two other dee nations for that matter, PLUS he is in the hall of fame.
Just trying to help..
@rickamatuzio---I agree about where Stanton should be.. The guy has 3 titles on the big bikes.. He should be right behind Carmichael and Mcgrath and right with Hannah,, Ahead of Reed and Stewie.. Dont care how many wins they have compared to Stanton, its titles that makes you a Champion.. Winning the battle feels good, but its more important to win the war..
Ricky Johnson has two, as does Jeff Ward and Ryan Vilipoto also already has two..
Whoever said Windham was never the man to beat, needs to think before they speak(type). He was one of the guys to beat until he broke his leg on that Suzuki. Just because he didn't get a title doesn't mean he wasn't one of the guys to beat. He and Travis were jumping things that guys today wouldn't on 450's. Breaking his leg may have cost him the title that year but it gave him a perspective on life and racing that made him the fan favorite he is today. I remember an interview when he came back, on the same bike he is racing today, he said racing is his career and that is how he supports his family so he needs to stay healthy and line up every weekend (which he for the most part has). Almost seems that the more titles you get the shorter your career.
@endo4...I think John Dowd did the next year at the same track.
die996 and bmd455, this whole list was something we all came up with -- Jason, Matthes, Eric Johnson, A-Fred, Chase, myself -- and a lot of back-and-forth went into it (and by the way, bmd, you are right, Jason has probably not seen all of the guys on this list, but I have, and I agree with pretty much everything on here, though I would have loved to see Jaroslav Falta on there for winning the one SX race he entered, the '74 LA Coliseum race:
http://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/jaroslav-falta/races
Windham is ahead of LaRocco because he won 18 mains to Mike's 10, in part because Mike's starts always hampered his SX results.
Please enjoy the list, and if you think you have a better top 30, by all means send it or post it and we will dig into it and have another bench race.
DC
MX Sports
I follow racing pretty close and I don't ever recall windham being "the man to beat". In his Suzuki days he was a podium contender at best, seeming never to have the ability or fitness to go 20 laps. Pastrana said that Windham was ridiculously fast during practice, but was never able to put that speed during the race.
I think Windham is awesome, always a threat to win, but I neve looked at him as the man considering who he raced against. (Mind you I'm speaking about supercross, not outdoors). I would say LaRocco got the best of Windham from a results standpoint. I think.. I'm not the vault but I have a decent memory.
(Mishoeye- I remember windham a Suzuki days, he won every heat race and I thought for sure he was going to take the main.. But he rarely pulled it off almost like a mental block because lord knows he had the speed)
Stanton should definitely be in the top 5. No way would it be fair for Bradshaw to be ahead of Stanton. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Jason Thomas and David Pingree are in the top 3 ;)
DC - I'm sure you're not losing any sleep over people's differing opinions on the exact order of the list. I just like looking back at all these great riders the sport has seen. IMO, people are kind of missing the point by getting hung up on the exact order, but it's good thing that people have strong feelings about it.
I'm looking forward to when Bayle, Bradshaw, and Stewart have their turn. Just mentioning their names tends to stir things up.
die996: THANK YOU!!!
Doug Henry in SX should maybe be 27th at best. No idea how he gets ranked ahead of Ezra Lusk and Mike LaRocco. I like Doug but is he really the next best SX rider right after O'Mara? BS.
I don't think anyone's missing the point.. The point of the list is to rank the top 30 best sx racers of all time correct?
By the way, Davies answer to why Windham out ranks Larocco is fine by me, however it begs to question how Doug Henry's 3 wins outrank Laroccos 10 wins.
I think the list is fairway accurate..and they did a great job, we all have our personal favorite riders so I would imagine those bias creep into out decisions. And I am enjoying the reading as well.
By the way, bringing up Bradshaw.. I have been watching old 92 videos, we need a character like him In the sport again. He made it very exciting to watch!! That dude would twist it to win or crash trying, I love that. Hard to blame Stewart cause he has that potential too
Sorry for my type-o's, responding to Davey the editor I need to shut my predictive text off on the smart phone and be professional. I respect your opinions in making this list, we all have them. I just want to say that in other sports, such as golf, the number of MAJORS dictates your place in history.
Tiger woods has won more, and more often than Jack Nicklaus.. But Nicklaus is considered the GOAT because he has 18 major championships.
I guess the only real undeniable fact is that McGrath belongs #1. The rest is speculation by numbers
MX Bob, you're right, I don't get too caught up in the order, but it it's difficult to come up with a pure science of it all. Henry's spot was definitely one that brought up a lot of debate, and his game-changing win on that four-stroke back in '97 got more credit than any of the singular wins of LaRocco, but that's what happens when you do these lists by committee!
So grab a tear-off and duck for some cover, there's some more roost coming that you may or may not agree with...
DC
MX Sports
Well Davey, what ever your doing is working.. Regardless of the listings, I keep checking back at this website every few hours and i normally only go to the computer once a day! I'm anxious to read the comments, and see who the next in line will be. A very enjoyable experience on Racer X before 2013 begins..
I hope you decide to do the same for Outdoors.
@ DC
Common, man. Take a Christmas break! I appreciate the fact that you guys take your time to bench race with us a little though. Greatest Mx web site period! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to racer x staff!
@rick...Windham may have not been THE guy to beat like RC or MC but for sure beating Windham in those days was an accomplishment. He just seemed to be his worst enemy sometimes. To be honest I can't remember what years he rode for Suzuki and who won the title that year. Too much green corn I guess.
I can't wait until RacerX makes A1 predictions. The know-it-all's will be out in force. Sometimes the comments end up being better than the article.
OH MY! I hope A1 gets here soon before we tear our little community apart
from squabbling. Were like a group of tailgaters that got to the game too early.
By kickoff the police were called, one dude has a blackeye and all the wemon are swearing they will never come back. Merry xmass all.
FirstOr Dirt, that is hilarious! I think you just made Noise with our next issue (we will fix the typo too).
Merry X-Mas, fellow bench racers!
DC
MX Sports
Let's just see how realistic this "list" is. We all know RC JM RJ DB JW BH will all vie for the top spots. But the one who all great racers who have a clue all feared and admired most ....the late GREAT Danny "Magoo" Chandler!!!!! Forever # 1!