Rapid ReaXtion: Brayton to JGR
Wednesday, September 19, 2012 | 10:50 AM
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PrintDavey Coombs:
It's hard not to pull for Justin Brayton. He's a good guy from a humble background, the favorite son of a very fast community of racers in Iowa. Justin seemed poised to make things happen at Team Honda, which has now been a top destination of riders in this sport going back to 1973. But for one reason or another (and another) things didn't go right for Brayton and the Big Red Machine. He never seemed to find his full speed and excel at Honda the way Jeff Stanton did in 1989 when he came to the team without any previous wins, then landed six titles (Stanton being the rider and the personality that Brayton reminds me of most).
Instead, Justin's short tenure there kind of went the way of some of American Honda's less fruitful acquisitions over the years, like Ben Townley, Tommy Hahn, Scott Sheak, Rich Coon, Ron Sun…
But Brayton certainly landed on his feet at Joe Gibbs Racing Yamaha, a team that could use a solid, consistent rider like #10 after the ambitious misadventure of signing superstar James Stewart and trying to make a bike work for James that others could not. Brayton's return to JGR marks JGR's return to its roots as more of a close-knit team that works closely together and thinks more like a group... Or better yet, a football team.
As for Honda, they now have a proven winner in Justin Barcia coming on board, not to mention the return of Trey Canard after two injury-riddled seasons. That's also a strong line-up, albeit a fragile one (I just know Trey hates seeing that word here, but he's got the surgery scars to prove it). Both are lightning fast, deeply competitive and have the potential to get Honda back to the top.
The 2013 season will mark 40 years for Team Honda in America, stretching back to Gary Jones' 250cc AMA Motocross Championship of 1973. This team is one that can compete with Monster Energy Kawasaki, Red Bull KTM, Yoshimura Suzuki and, yes, Yamaha's JGR team, as well as everyone else.
Here's hoping for good things for the people on both sides of this deal: Brayton and JGR Yamaha, and Team Honda.
Jason Weigandt:
Happy days are here again! Hallelujah! Brayton is coming back HOME!
Now I once again have someone to share a milkshake with, someone to share.... wait, despite my best efforts, I've never actually hung out with JB away from a dirt bike, mountain bike or the JGR shop. But it's good to at least know that someone wants to live in the Charlotte area and thinks it's a good place to base from.
And that's the big difference between Brayton 2010-2011 and Brayton 2013 (2.0?). On Monday, I was stealing another free lunch from the JGR shop when (be still, my beating heart) I saw Justin. It was raining, which served as a reminder of the winter riding days JB would lose in NC while California guys were out pounding laps. Team Manager Jeremy Albrecht said to Brayton, "Hey, at least this time you wanted to come back over here. The last time, we just told you this is how we do it."
Yes, Brayton found out the grass isn't always greener. I asked him about the switch and he has nothing bad to say about Honda guys like Team Manager Erik Kehoe, but he knows now that the factory Honda bike wasn't a magic wand. And let's be honest, Team Honda hasn't won a 450 Class championship since RC in 2004, and in the time since, every other major manufacturer (even KTM, now) has. I think Team Honda would have brought Justin back, but I think the JGR offer was better, and Justin realized how much he liked working with his old crew.
Plus, much has changed. While the Stewart/JGR tie up didn't work out as planned, it did benefit the team. Yamaha's factory techs work much more closely with JGR now, so Justin will stay in California from November through February, testing at the Yamaha track with the Yamaha guys (no more NC winters). He also gets that trick aluminum tank/shroud kit they developed for Stewart. The team also says Stewart's influence has made their Pirelli tires better. Brayton has also requested (and will get) a new works Showa shock.
So it's very much the same as before, but much better, also. Of course, there's still that sticking point of the current-gen YZ450F, which has a bad rep. But Brayton already spent two years on that bike—if he hated it, he wouldn't have come back.
Steve Matthes:
We've known this was coming for a while and I'm happy for the JGR guys and for Brayton as well. But I wish he wasn't going back. I wish that Honda had been able to find some room for him because I feel Brayton deserved a second chance at Honda based on his very-good supercross season, and although he had some up and down rides in the Nationals, he still proved he has the speed. Brayton knew going into this year that more than likely Justin Barcia was going to come over to Honda in 2013 and that Trey Canard was loved by Honda so he had to force them to add a third rider. He took the challenge and as I said, I thought he responded pretty well.
I suppose the only knock on Brayton is just when it seemed like he was ready to take the next step, he would stumble and have to work hard to get back. He pressured RV a bit in one supercross and then, poof, never again. He made the podium in the Nationals and then the next weekend, poof, he'd be outside the top ten. I know there was a lot of injuries that incurred while practicing that hurt JB but then again, all the guys go through it and Justin himself wasn't making any excuses.
Having said that, I wish Honda had a spot for him, they didn't and he moved to JGR. It's very strange to see a rider basically leave a factory team and then come back a year later. Larry Ward did it with Suzuki but that was about a seven-year gap, this is pretty sudden in terms of moto. The JGR guys enjoyed Brayton and he liked living out there so much that he bought a condo, and I believe his girlfriend is from the Charlotte area. He's mega-fast, he's a hard worker, he won't complain about the bike and he'll get you good results. It's a win/win for both sides but again, I thought Honda should have found a home for him based on him not really ever getting hurt and giving it his all for them.
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Poor SOB!!!
The weird thing about this move is how quickly he left JGR, went to Honda and now is coming back to JGR. Honda had to have foreseen Barcia coming up to a 450. Right now, I hate to say it, but seeing Canard get another ride from Honda is tough to swallow. Yes, he has done great things on the bike but they also need someone who will be on the bike week in and week out. Am sure Brayton cost a lot less then Canard and put the red bike in the mix with the big boys. I think Honda made a mistake by getting rid of him so easily. He put in a lot of great rides and showed mental toughness when he was practically injured and very sore. Where does that hard work and dedication pay off for him with Honda? It does not look very good to Honda to simply get rid of a guy who is a great face for the company for another rider who may or may not make it through a full season, regardless of his past results.
@BillC,, I agree, but it was probably his only choice.
It's all about results really.
If you want to paint the company as the bag guy go ahead!
Pretty smiles, work ethics aside, you have to look at it from both sides,
not just 1.
Many times the opportunity did in fact present itself for several this season
due to the classes many injuries, yet some always fell short.
Factory teams want winners.
It's what's expected.
At the end of the day you simply add it all up and it is what it is.
Bring on 2013!!
Brayton is a good rider who didn't rise to the occasion. I too would have kept him at Honda one more year and let Canard go. Canard is a wonderful fellow but he has some serious issues keeping the bike on two wheels. I doubt he will make an entire season of sx/mx without another disaster. Canards long term health has to be of concern with some of the damage he has done.
I thought that he never looked as good on the Honda as he did on the Yamaha. May be Injuries or just not getting along with the Honda? Time will tell.
I see Canard as a better P.R. guy than Brayton, but just a little better. Both are solid gold. As far as results, *if* Canard can keep it together, he has the heart of a lion. Brayton has confidence issues in my humble opinion.
I like the heck out of both, but Canard is built from sterner stuff. Canard beat RV for a championship using a win-or-die methodology, which makes for excellent sponsor spotlights. Sparks on the track and peace & love off the track is what this sport seeks from its riders, since it is the message that the lifestyle promoting sponsors are seeking.
Back in the day with massive corporate sponsors, personality wasn't that big a deal. Now, it is 50% of the equation.
I really hope that JGR can pull their program back together so we get more parity. I want to see Blue at the top step at least once this year, and this is coming from a Honda guy.
I think Brayton should have been kept at Honda. I also don't follow the same rules as most team managers/owners making the decisions apparently. They will fill their factory stables with injury prone riders (good publicity skills or not) who show flashes of brilliance but can't make it through half a series before they will pick a top 5 guy who can do it every week and is a P.R. dream. Consistency apparently isn't a factor based on who you see getting rides a lot of the time, obviously this doesn't apply to all but it seems very common. There was just an article on this site about this if I recall. Other than the actual champions who are obviously consistent, guys with consistency would be at the top of my list personally. Not just guys who make 50% of the races each year and have a longshot hope of maybe winning the odd moto.
So that's the thanks he gets! Thanks for riding hard and representing our team all season long...now good luck riding the blue turd!
Glad to see Yamaha get a rider who can be a good top 10 all year in this stacked field...Really need 1 more guy too...Its gonna take a year or two to get rid of the JS7 curse for the blue guys...Lots of negative comments about that bike from people who have probably never ridden one...I still love mine and plan on keeping it......
By the way I looked up JS7 SX results on Yamaha and he won 45% of the races he was healthy enough to enter...24% winning percentage on the new era version YZ450...not to mention nearly every heat race and usually set the fastest lap in the quals.......Sooo was it the bike??????
I dont think so IMO...He was again fast as usual on the RMZ450 and won 2 nationals..then the controversial flagger in the way IMO had nothing to do with crashing entering a turn 400 yards after the incident ...But for those that beleive it was all the flaggers fault how do you explain 4 other crashes on that RMZ 450...3 in one weekend....Getting back to this article LOL...The bike and team are not the problem and it did finish 2nd place in the 2012 SX points..look it up..Im glad for Brayton and JGR both are a good fit for each other ..
@yamyblues ,, I think I detect a little bias in your comment? What about Millsaps, Izzi, and Regal? Ask them if they like the Yam 450?
I am with Yamyblues. It isnt the bike. It is just the machine - this sport is 90% rider, 10% bike, and I am sure JGR did whatever James asked them to do. It just wasn't working out to either of their expectations, and they had a come-apart over it.
The real problem is that a football recruiting mentality - having Joe put the hard press to pull the talent - didn't work. JS is on the downside of his career, and they should have went with someone like a Barcia who is just starting to peak.
Personally, I saw the JS/Yamaha pairing as being jinxed from the start for reasons not associated with hardware. JS had some growing up to do, and it looks like he got around to it. I believe that JS is a much more mature person now, and Suzuki is the beneficiary.
Let's be honest, the Honda and the Yamaha aren't the best base to start from as compared to the other brands. JB looked good indoors on red, but better on blue outdoors. The guy had a lot of injuries - jebus he rode with a broken leg! Nothing ventured nothing gained, Yamaha and Honda always lead the pack with technology and the other brands follow. Sadly it's a risk that doesn't always pay off. IMHO eventually it will pay off with some big bike championships.
@BigUglyManiac,, Your right.. JS's issues was not all the bike, but I think the bike did have a little to do with it.. Yes, I'm sure JGR did whatever they could, but you also have to stay with in the "production rule" guide lines. Also, just because a team goes after a rider, that does not mean they will get him.
Sigh... same old fools thinking the YZF sucks just because Booba said so. Bunch of knobs...
Brayton was obviously out of options. Yea he'll get good dough riding the yami but after a bad season hows he going to get another good ride. I think this is a bad choice for Brayton because of the bike. Its like my father used to always tell me back when i raced KX'125's. "you can make a slow bike fast, but you cant make a bike handle if it doesn't handle" . thats my opinion of the new yami's and the 2013's only change is BNG's.
The "Stewart or the bike" issue is a dead one, they were BOTH to blame.....to a certain percentage. Now, feel free to discuss the percentages.
As for the "Justin or Trey" question over at Honda, Trey is a ginger and has won races. Redheads are riding a wave of popularity right now thanks to RC & RV and teams want winners.
What I really think is that in one year, Eli Tomac will be free to sign a new contract with whomever he chooses. Honda wants to be there for that bidding war and cutting Justin loose saves some yen and makes room.
I bet dungey could win on the yz450, his bike looked like shit at the beginning of the season but by the end handled a lot better the problem is james is a turd when it comes to setting up a bike so a lot of the blame is on him
@tomktm,, If you were to do a little homework, you would find out that there are more riders (plural) than JS that "said so," ya "knob."
@ mxmofo1.........Izzi, Regal and Millsaps have never been consistent on anything so that's not a very good group to compare the YZ450F to.
Just the same as JS crashes on anything he rides and is a not capable of developing any bike, it's always been done for him. What's done is done now, Yamaha should have paid for a top tier rider capable of developing things on it from the get go and I bet the YZ450's reputation would be different than it is now.
Anytime some is selling "kits " to relocate the motors for "better handling"...(and people are buying it)...there might be really a problem.(that and it SLAMMED and I mean SLAMMED down everyone that gets on it....I am a Brayton fan ....but I see one good reason for wanting Canard ...he has the SPEED (in capitals) to WIN races...he gets hurt alot and needs to complete a season .......hes also great PR wise ...hes is personable and a character and most importantly ...can goon ride like a mother....I like a good fender slap.....Until Stewart wins another CHAMPIONSHIP he is now just another guy lining up (at least hes riding a GREAT bike and that excuse won't fly) .....move along nothing new here......his cape and superpowers ain't workin ...the Ground called and is filing a restraining order.........
Anytime some is selling "kits " to relocate the motors for "better handling"...(and people are buying it)...there might be really a problem.(that and it SLAMMED and I mean SLAMMED down everyone that gets on it....I am a Brayton fan ....but I see one good reason for wanting Canard ...he has the SPEED (in capitals) to WIN races...he gets hurt alot and needs to complete a season .......hes also great PR wise ...hes is personable and a character and most importantly ...can goon ride like a mother....I like a good fender slap.....Until Stewart wins another CHAMPIONSHIP he is now just another guy lining up (at least hes riding a GREAT bike and that excuse won't fly) .....move along nothing new here......his cape and superpowers ain't workin ...the Ground called and is filing a restraining order.........
IF Yamaha would have brought over Decoster and Dungey, they would be sitting on a championship and everyone would be saying how awesome the 'new' bike is
Justin Brayton is still racing? Man I hardly ever notice him anymore. Good move by Honda I think. The guy is like the invisible factory rider.
@mustard ...there is an equal chance Dungey would be healing up.
@Retardcross,, Then how come they are not staying on Yams?
I agree with SpottedMarley! Brayton was hardly ever seen on TV! You have to be in the top 5 at least every weekend to get exposure for your brand. Brayton was not cutting it! I hope he can step it up though! Otherwise most of these pros that are not good enough are just collecting checks and not wins or trophies!
@Retardcross,, Also, how come Yamaha has plans to move the motor back to "normal" in 2014?
Yamahas are the best 450s out there. Look how many privateers are on them!! *crickets* But poor Brayton cant catch a break on any bike. He looked so strong early this year. But every year in the 450 class is becoming injury riddled. The bikes are just so gnarly now a days that you cant push it too hard before you eat shit (Reed, Stewart) Best of luck to Justin though!
Honda's goal is to sell bikes, thats why they have a team, barcia and canard will sell more bikes than brayton ever will
@ fatneck03 Hey when she's done given you oral send her my way ......LOL !
@ mxmofo1.......Just because they're not riding them doesn't mean anything, maybe they don't have the opportunity to ride them anymore? Does that mean any brand they're not currently riding sucks?
The YZ450F project failed and now this design is tarnished whether they can improve it or not, they haven't had one consistent front runner capable of bike development on it yet. That's where they failed. They should have had a top tier rider with development skills on it from the get go since it was a totally new design. Putting the most intense, inconsistent rider out there on it and throwing $$ at it won't necessarily make the bike work. Everyone else who has failed on it is performing no different on different brands. Obviously it has flaws, but they could have been ironed out with the right people around it. Just like the KTM "career-ending" move for Dungey, look what him and Decoster turned that thing into in 1 year.
The truth is that Justin Brayton is the most well-rounded, consistent guy they've had on that bike so far, and his results didn't change going to Factory Honda. Millsaps did better on the YZ than he has since winning the 250F SX title for Factory Honda years ago, he's also far from the poster boy of consistency and reliability most of the time.
Also people have been getting mowed down with injuries on every colour this year, it's hardly a Yamaha thing.
This just goes to show how screwed up this off-season can be at times; look at Broc Tickle -- he had an awesome National season for Pro Circuit in the 450cc class, and Martin Davalos is the one who has a ride there; I understand that Pro Circuit is a Lites-only team (, but still -- Tickle should've been given another year as some sort of reward or something -- same goes for Justin Brayton at Honda. He had a great Supercross season, even winning the Bret Michaels Rock Hard Ride Hard awardIt wasn't long ago there were 3 slots open at Honda back in 2008 -- Tedesco, Short, and Millsaps; now it's just Barcia and Canard
To add to the "(" -- "(yes, Tickle unexpectedly pointed out)"
@Retardcross,, Answer my questions first, then I will answer yours. Your KTM reference does not hold water. Yam has a radical design, and KTM's isnt. Lets also be honest here.. The 450 KTM RD was riding was pretty much a "works" bike. The average Joe couldnt even buy one, and if he did, there was no parts to be had. Let it also be known that KTM has unlimited resources as far as money goes.
I also think that Doug Dubach has been testing the Yams for a long long time, right?
Yes, RD did win the championship, without JS, CR, RV, and TC..
@mxmofo....what behind the scene information says that it will be "reversed".back to 'normal'.(i wish) ....but...seeing that some (myself included) think its is most likely frame design and not the angle of the top end...the V.1 may be struggling but with more R&D V.2 may be spectacular...they never went back to twin shocks...lol....hard to say ...but who REALLY knows...maybe 'the shadow'....also I happen to think Brayton has what it takes but raw speed is an issue now more than ever ...the pace will be HOT this year.. staying on the thing is just getting harder and harder....regardless of design or color....
"The ground called"...................HAHA!...It never gets old.
tonewall has a valid point. The only person that doesn't want to change the bike is Doug Dubach, 'cause he's selling too many engine relocation kits.
@ jeramey, great point. Stewart is currently ruining the multi-rider / race / title winning RMZ by setting it up "bubba-style". Dude can ride really fast, that doesn't make him smart, a good test rider, knowledgeable about setup, good at PR or a lot of other things that make a "well-rounded" racer. He's strictly a "hired gun" at this point in his career.
Also, I find DC's wording interesting......(JGR was) "trying to make a bike work for James that others could not". Ummm, as for "others", don't you mean he, HIMSELF. he bought* L&M racing (a multi-SX championship winning team) and couldn't figure it out his damn self. With no disconnect between the racer and the boss, one would assume his figuring out the issues rather quickly........this was not the case.
#7's one redeeming quality, blazing speed, has been checked by the current and new #1's, leaving a racer with top 5* speed and a bunch of negative qualities that a team (his benefactor) shouldn't be burdened with. Add in the new talent coming up and you have a 10-year vet (going on 11) that has a lot of baggage and very little upside. He's lucky to be with Suzuki and Yamaha & JGR are lucky to be rid of him.
I did answer your questions.........people switch teams and brands all the time, the fact that 3 inconsistent riders you named are not on Yamaha's anymore doesn't mean anything. Who said they even had the option to keep riding Yamaha's?
I also addressed the other question about them turning the engine back around, I said now that this project has failed and the design is tarnished, they have no choice but to leave this design even if it has potential. Had they put a capable top tier rider on it to begin with, I definitely think there's a good chance the YZ450 wouldn't have the reputation it does now and could likely be performing just as well as the other brands.
So what you're saying is that Dungey and Decoster didn't face a big challenge to get that KTM working properly? The KTM is a new bike and met the production rules in a very limited timeframe. If Yamaha spent there money on their bike like KTM did instead of spending the money on JS who can't develop a bike, they could easily be in a different boat right now.
Like I said the YZ450 project started on the wrong foot, totally new design + super fast/inconsistent rider who can't develop a bike, what was expected to happen?
Your JS loyalty is showing in your Ryan Dungey comments too by the way, you can asterisk his titles all you want because JS didn't win but it doesn't change the fact he's been killing it every year and racking up titles while the others struggle to stay on 2 wheels at the pace they're all going now.
Let's be realistic as well, JS and TC didn't stand a chance of winning the titles this year. Not because of speed but because of their lack of consistency. Reed got bit this year but he's far from inconsistent in the big picture, and RV getting hurt was flukey this season but he's definitely not immune to injury. Right now RD is the best overall package whether you want to admit it or not.
@ tonewall, if you're inferring that Yamaha will keep the engine backward on the new model, I TOTALLY disagree. They shut* the bed on the 2010-2013 model and they have to distance themselves from that entire concept. Public perception demands it.
@ carlsbad......... Spot on, key words being "public perception demands it". Even if they can fix it, it's too late now. They have no choice but to go back to the norm now if they want to sell bikes.
Yamaha has fallen behind as one of the leading brands. Just take their 250F for example. They have done nothing to it since its re-introduction in 2010. The 450 is the same way.
Ask Ping or any other "fast" guy and they will almost all tell ya the YZ450 is an ODD DUCK... I believe them.
@Retardcross,, So now it's JS's fault the Yam 450 "failed?" hahaha, I've heard it all now... Hell,, you might as well blame him for Global Warming while you're at it.. Also, I never said DeCoster and RD did NOT face a big challenge, did I?
@tonewall,, I heard it from a very good source at Millville. They will change the engine back to "normal" in 2014.
Great job JGR in gettig a guy that can run in 10th place ---- how about getting a contender?
Loosen up those deep pockets and convince a guy that can run up front consistently to change your fortunes.
I thought Villopoto would be a "greedy" enough candidate to make the jump but apparently Kawasaki decided to payup this time instead of letting another star get away and so far JGR appears gun shy after the Stewie mistake
@Over_the_Bars,, You can only get a "contender," if the contender wants to be gotten.
@ mxmofo1 ...... You're hearing what you want because you're a JS fan, it's not his fault it failed. Yamaha banking on JGR and ultimately JS to do the development was a bad decision, and surely didn't help.
@ Retardcross,, Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure you said ---
"Like I said the YZ450 project started on the wrong foot, totally new design + super fast/inconsistent rider who can't develop a bike, what was expected to happen?"
@Retardcross,, It may be very possible that JS can't develop a bike, but with the production rules, the team and the rider can only do so much.. The fact is, none of the top riders like the Yam 450, and thats a fact..
The fact is the bike is different, but it can perform, JS proved that when he wasn't doing his typical lawn darts that happen on every color for him. There have been good rides on the YZ450, here and in Europe. The number of consistent, elite guys (RD, CR) who have spent time on that bike = zero. Pourcel was a joke, pulled off while leading and looking great and fled to Europe because he was out of shape. Millsaps rides the bike just fine, Kiniry rides it well, Paulin rode it well. I'd like to see where "all the top riders" have said the YZ450 is no good. Yamaha at the corporate level dropped the ball huge by not making revisions, that's the ultimate failure for this bike, letting people lose faith in a design that could have been great.
The YZ450 is also a convenient scapegoat now for people who underperform on it. The funny part is, once these few people left the Yamaha for other brands nothing changed, results or consistency.
Keep telling yourself the bike is great retardcross.....but it will not change the fact that almost everyone says it's not. But their probley all wrong and your right!! LOL
@Retardcross,, Just because its a new design, does not mean it will work. When RV first rode the 2012 Kaw 450, he rode it across a parking lot, and HE SAID he could already tell the difference in the geometry on that bike compared to the 2011, and look what happened when he got on that. He REALLY smoked everyone.
Everyone always assumes the rider like Brayton has no input on where he goes. "Why would Honda drop him? Why?" Maybe Brayton CHOSE to go back to JGR? The same thing comes up when so and so gets hired over the much faster so and so........but behind the scenes the much faster guy scoffed at the ride and chose to go elsewhere. A year ago all I heard about was that JGR was THE team when it was Stewart signing, now the general consensus is that they are a 2nd tier team as Brayton is going back there. JGR is still a kick-ass team and outfit, and they are still seeking the kick ass rider to put them over the top. Stewart just wasn't it!
Still hating on the bike...Millsaps placed 2nd in the 2012 SX points on it and JS7 won 45% of every SX race he entered while on blue..(look it up,,I did)..What do you think his winning percentage will be on Yellow...?
Bottom line is JS7 set the fastest lap in quals and nearly won every heat race just a couple months ago on this bike...If it were that bad he could not of done that period....You will all see the same JS7 on yellow...really fast will win some races ,,but he will wad that thing up and taste some dirt more than a few times guaranteed....What are you going to say then..Suzuki luckily didnt change there design the year they signed him or they would of suffered the same blow..
BillC: I'm not saying the Yamaha is a great bike, but I am saying it isn't the terrible albatross some want to make it out to be. Let's see what Millsaps can do on a Suzuki this year.....or for that matter what Stewart can do on the factory Suzuki. So far James has looked very familiar with a few wins followed by large bins of broken plastic.....only it is now yellow.
when a top rider signs with yamaha then ill believe that its not the bike.
I'll have to agree with Travis Preston's take on JS7 and wether it's the bike or not. In saying that there is a caveat about the Yamaha and the engine relocation kits that are being sold. According to what I've read the kits do work. Also Mr Preston pointed out, accurately, is JS7 like his setup with super stiff forks and a bouncing rear end (sic). It was like that when he was with San Manueal, JGR and now factory Suzuki. The first two rounds of the outdoors the bike look like it worked well then the third round the front tire looked like it was skating, which is no good for setting into ruts.
LOOK in to Braytons Sun Glasses and tell me He is not standing on the side of the road with his bag of t shirts thumbing back to JGR ..."COME ON hONDA give the guy at least a ride back home .If that was me I would of put the knife right to old Mr.Honda himself............
The backwards Yamaha, is it a great bike or a piece of junk? We will never know for sure and we have James Stewart to blame for that! What James did is by far the worst thing a rider has done to any brand of motorcycle in the history of MX. The black cloud over this bike is the result of a spoiled bigger than life person named James Stewart and his total lack of respect for anything but him self. I can not for the life of me understand why any other manufacture would even consider signing James after what he did to JGR and Yamaha. I guess now days signing a contract and making a commitment means nothing and that is ok with most people.
In 2011, JS won 7 races on the YZ450 (which was the new gen Yami) against RV, Reed and Dungey. The bike can't suck for that to be the case. It would seem JGR just went in the wrong direction for whatever reason (Stewart going in wrong direction on setup, etc).
The thing hear is in my opinion JGR getting back to their old days where a top 5 was the best they could hope for. It's weird how they didnt add more pressure to have a factory rider ride for them. Also guys think about it, with Dungey, Villopoto, Reed and Stewart out their racing, Honda needed the fastest guys they could find (Barcia and Canard), do you really think Brayton would crack that top 6? mmm hardly doubt it and it will be a lot tougher with Weimer and Wilson out there racing too. It's not a matter of solid results, it's about who can give you overalls or championships and even though it hurts me to say this, Brayton will hardly ever win one.
I agree Brayton seems like a "good guy", but that is generally not a quality most champions possess. I'm not inside his head but he seems to be one of those happy to be here guys running in the top 15 without the motivation needed to be numero uno. Very few successful people at the top of their sport or profession are nice. Most are arrogant, type A, demanding a--holes. I say that with all due respect. Is Bob Hannah or Rick Johnson known for being nice? Michael Jordan, Schwarzenegger, or Tiger Woods? NOPE
This bike thing and JS7 is getting soooooooo old. Everyone that has ridden the new YZ knows its a piece of crap, just look at all the revews. Besides JS who's done anything on that bike.
As far as Brayton, no disrespect, but factories like to hire riders that can win and have a winning attitute, at least it used to be. Seems like a lot of riders nowadays are happy with a top 10.
@mit12, what Jeremy did to KTM in late 2002 was shittier.
@Hammerhead251
How do you think that retiring after an injury is as bad? He did not leave mid season and did not race a different brand in the same year. Sure he came out of retirement I believe a couple of years later. Totally different on all accounts.
@ Hammerhead251, I agree.
@ Mit12, good point.
@ texag, also agreed.
I think Yamaha had a "perfect storm" of miscues and mistakes that cost them big.
1) Closing down the factory-team-proper eliminated the feedback and development at that level. (it saved them money though, and that is all they were focusing on at the time).
2) James Stewart. He was already on the company payroll when the bike was released but, he was never a part of the R&D equasion at any level.
3) It's common knowledge that Stewart is neither a competent test rider nor well versed in set-up or R&D.
4) JGR was not ready for the scope of tasks necessary at that level. (in their defense, they should not have been expected to do so but, Yamaha was busy saving yen and they were either unwilling or unable to offer assistance whether it be monetary or technical).
5) With Stewart as their only top-tier racer, they were shut out of the feedback portion of that relationship (partly because of the previously mentioned poor R&D skills and partly because of the Stewarts' reclusive behavior).
6) The economy.
7) The fallout from the Stewart camp pointing fingers at the bike for #7's problems.
8) The exodus from the bike after big and small-name racers alike couldn't come to terms with the design.
9) The PR nightmare of dealing with the percieved lack of results.
10) Having to keep the bike for a full development cycle (three years is the industry standard) due to budget restraints (or they hate their customers, you decide which).
In the end, Yamaha is hating their situation, the satellite teams (JGR, Star-Valli, etc) cannot sign decent talent, their R&D program is now suspect, they are shut out of victory lane for the forseeable future, sales are tanking and the company, at the corporate level, has lost MAJOR face.
JS7 will WIN the 2013 SX/MX championships!!!!!!
You guys talking about JS7 sound like FOOLS!!!
@ starplaya4life
What up ! Dave Weak Lop Yamaha throws out the love !
js7 and k-dub are still the only guys who beat rc and maybe reed straight up. js7 has quite a few titles for him to be dogged out so much...
he still might make liars out of everyone.
Now I'm hearing this talk of bike development, as if Dungey, RV, Reed, or Stewart ever spend their time developing bike design. They test for the best possible settings on the bike they are given, they aren't the test riders the factory uses in developing the bikes. There are guys behind the scenes that serve that role, Mike Fisher was one at Kawasaki for years. But alot of that goes on in Japan with riders that we never heard of. There might be something learned here or there that gets sent to the factory engineers for input, but that's about where it ends for the factory riders. If you need any proof, consider what went on at Honda when MC just won his 3rd SX title and they decided to do a complete redesign to a bike he hated........or consider what happened to the Yamaha in question with Stewart in 2010. They design bikes to sell, not simply to win titles. When Yamaha came out with this bike, it was REVOLUTIONARY and they sold shit-ton based on all the gimmicks and doodads. Now because of James, it is considered a complete and utter failure. Lucky for Suzuki they have a proven track record with their design.
Further, Yamaha has a big hole to dig out of in terms of signing anyone who can win. Those riders are all signed and on teams they like, oh and who pay decent. Yamaha is going to need to blow someone out of the water with money and have a bike that doesn't have a rotten reputation. Someday they may have that, but for the forseeable future, I can't think of a rider with any potential of winning anything signing with a Yamaha team.
@carlsbad
I could not agree more.
I think Yamaha had a "perfect storm" of miscues and mistakes that cost them big. Well said.
carlsbad is on the money.
@mit12,, It was in JS's contract that he could back out early if him and the bike did not mesh.. He has stated that in an interview.
@SpottedMarley, Justin Brayton is on the line every race . . . . where are you?
@ BK-R good post(s).
I'm not saying the factory contracted racers are responsible for pre-pro testing but, they are expected to give input on certain aspects at the prototype and pre-production levels........certainly not at the levels that were previously expected from the factories.
I can't speak for "we" but, I know "I" wouldn't want a bike built for Reed, Villopoto, Stewart or Dungey, anyway. The standard 155lb. intermediate is a good target range even though I'm probably too much of one and not enough of the other nowadays.
I think with the economy how it's been, Yamaha & Suzuki were left with little choice as to their futures in regards to race teams.
I would imagine Honda & Kawasaki being horrified into re-funding their programs so as to not head down those paths.
At least Suzuki has Yoshimura's R&D capabilities and established lines of contact from previously working with their GSXR (street bike) program.
@mxmofo1
I do not believe that for one second. Why would JGR and Yamaha sign a multi year contract with Stewart that has that kind of language in it? I would believe it if it was a 1 year deal.
The Yamaha could possibly be fixed with very slight changes to frame rigidity and dimensions , motor placement and power delivery...with suspension settings (and tires ...don't forget the Pirelli equation) to match .....this ain't rocket science.....I think the WFO throttle 250 2stroke ,head over the front axle style that worked so well for Havoc , doesn't so much work on a heavy , motor braking 450 4...(watch RV that style --rearward --works)...also road race technology does not necessarily a good dirt bike make....but now the bad rap (with due cause) will cause Yamaha to take drastic measures to get back in the game and save (the all important) face.......lol...as for Havoc7's horrible R and D skills ..its all basically here-say and I find it hard to believe someone who RIDES as much and as long as he has , can't utter the words 'bucks' ."hops"..."chops" "goes all tornado" and "flings me off".."unless the front end pushes first"....to the fleet of mechanics and technicians at his disposal......
@mit12,, I agree, but its true... I would think that since JS did not like the bike, and JGR couldnt do anything more, they both decided to cut their losses.. Like I said, he stated that in an interview after he had left JGR.
@tonewall ,, changing the frame goes against the production rule. You can't do it...
@ mxmofo1, I think tonewall meant at the factory level, on the production line.
I don't believe a thing that comes from the #7 camp. One thing they have down is media manipulation. We STILL haven't heard about the L&M team purchase (that went belly up). One can only assume because of non-disclosure stipulations.
mxmofo1: Quit kidding yourself. Any HONEST person on these post realizes that if your going to build a winning bike, Dungey would be everyone's choice to ride it along with RV. Stewart is a nightmare for such a task.
Now, on another subject, KTM go after ET and put him on a big bike next year!!!!! Imagine what a team with DeCoster, Dungey and Tomac.....
first let me say i would never buy a yamaha between the years 2010-2014 I think the bike looks hideous its the ugliest thing ive ever seen regardless of how it rides
second lets just wait till this year and see how milsaps,stewart,and regal do (I expect same results)
and than we will see how brayton does
after the whole stewart thing any rider who gets on the bike and produces poor results arent even gonna have to say anything their excuse has been pre manufactured for them that yamaha is a total turd BUT! if dungey can win on a diferent color turd someone can win on that bike I used to believe it was the bike until i seen the exact same results on a bike without a thing wrong with it
I think Stewart's results will be the same. He'll either be on the podium or discussing current events with Doc Bodnar on the side of the track.