Observations: Atlanta
Wednesday, February 29, 2012 | 3:30 PM
Share
Comment
Email
Print
The Atlanta Supercross is definitely one of the best races on the schedule each and every year. The Georgia Dome is always packed with fans from all over the country, and it has definitely become one of the “must see” races of the season. And even with the loss of Chad Reed in Dallas, the title chase remains close and exciting, and there was no way you were going to have an empty seat in the house.
I know it’s hard to believe to Reed’s fans, but the series does go on despite the loss of the gifted Australian. The TwoTwo rider is going in for surgery on Thursday for his knee and says he’s hoping to make it back for the last few outdoor rounds, and maybe a chance at getting on the Australian MXDN team. If Chad Reed still has all four appendages, you pick him for your team.
I liked the track in Atlanta. I thought it was cool and something out of the 80s video game, Excitebike. It featured couple of dragon’s backs with some tabletops in between, and a wall jump immediately followed by a sand section that the guys worked over a bunch to make it rough. It also had a rhythm section with options on the inside and outside that set you up for different jump combos. I timed both options a few times, and either one was basically the same, but it did look different. Overall I thought the originality of it was great. All it was missing were big-ass whoops and an over/under bridge.
Ryan Dungey’s been a tick off since his win in Phoenix, and has clearly been the slowest guy of the “big guys.” But through attrition, he’s been able to take advantage of the other guys’ mistakes, and has stayed close to Ryan Villopoto in the points. The whoops were his archenemy in San Diego, and in Dallas and Anaheim 2, has suffered from poor starts. This week, however, The Dunge put it all together and passed early surprise-leader Cole Seely with an aggressive (aggressive for Dungey) pass and ran away for his second win of the year. Dungey was very good on the Atlanta track and put in his fastest lap of the night on the final lap, which is impressive. He was getting caught by RV at one point but he turned it up and successfully held off the points leader.
Dungey picked up his second win of the season, and KTM's second career SX class victory, in Atlanta.
Photo: Simon Cudby
At one point, Villopoto was closing in on Dungey, but he fell over in the turn before the wall. Surprisingly, nobody saw it. It wasn’t on TV, the announcers didn’t talk about it and neither myself nor anyone around me saw it. It happened pretty early (lap eight), but combined with his so-so start, the work required to get up to Dungey, the fall, the work required to reel Dungey back in, and you have a man who ran out of time. But as I said, kudos to Dungey for setting the fastest lap on the last lap. That’s cool to see. It was a great ride by the former champ, and he closed the points deficit to ten. Despite RV’s seemingly soul-crushing wins, this thing is far from over.
The move east is going to help both Dungey and Villopoto, but I believe Dungey will receive the greater benefit. Both guys are based out of Florida, and they both live out in the middle of nowhere. There’s nothing to do but hop on their private tracks and ride, train and repeat. No Southern California bro’s bothering you, no places to go, nothing. Just the tranquil sound of crickets, grass blowing and the roar of an engine turning at 13,000 RPM. That equals peace for these dudes.
The AMA just can’t win, it seems. A week after Dallas’ timing dispute at the finish of the LCQ involving Gavin Faith and Weston Peick (I sided with the AMA on this one), as well as a couple of fines handed out for rough riding (which I don’t agree with), we have a controversy in regards to Villopoto jumping a triple when the red light was flashing. In these types of things, I tend to go with my first instinct and my first thought was that for sure Villopoto was going to get penalized for clearly going off the ramp while the red lights flashed for a downed rider. But after the race the AMA ruled that RV didn’t have enough time to react to the lights, and there was no fine imposed. Upon landing, Ryan split the rider and his downed machine and was lucky himself to come away without getting hurt.
We’ve had penalties assessed in the past for this, and generally, the rider is docked five seconds or something like that. This wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the race but for the AMA to say that he didn’t have time, well I’m not buying that. I spoke with Villopoto on Tuesday about it and he swears he never saw the light flashing, and he thinks that if they’re going to use that system, they need to back it up with another flagger and more lights that are clearly visible from the race line. The hot line in the corner before the triple was rolling the last jump on the inside, and then triple. RV says that based on photos he saw after the race, the warning lights were on the outside.
Seely held Dungey at bay for the first seven laps before falling back to sixth.
Photo: Simon Cudby
I’ll say this: Even though it probably wouldn’t have changed anything in the end, RV got off really lucky to not be penalized. This rule has been there for a while, guys get hit with it every now and then, and all we’re asking for (and by “we,” I mean the riders, teams and greasy media guys) is some consistency within the AMA. We didn’t have it with the Mookie Stewart/Justin Bogle thing and we don’t have it now.
The one guy that was affected by Villopoto’s tripling was James Stewart, who was in third and was forced to single the triple. He of course lost a ton of time to RV, who he was closing in on a bit. Actually, both RV and James were catching Dungey and we were shaping up to have a good race, but once James rolled the triple he basically gave up. I think he should have kept going because who knows, if that five-second penalty was actually enforced and James had kept his speed up, he might have been bumped up to second.
Speaking of Stewart, I thought this weekend’s race was Stewie’s best since his win in Oakland all those weeks ago. I’m sure his familiarity with the soil and being close to his home had something to do with it. It looks to me like Stewart went back to the smaller forks this week to get some flex into his bike, and last week in Dallas, he debuted a rubberized front motor mount which, again, is for flex. You can see a shot of it HERE. Clearly, the JGR team is trying new stuff, but if you’re at round eight of the supercross series and you’re still making radical changes like this, something tells me that something’s not working.
In the post-race podcast on Racer X Online, I incorrectly stated that Stewart was no longer working with Johnny O’Mara based on something I heard from a reliable source. I asked Stewart about it and he got back to me confirming that it was news to him, and that he and O’Mara were still together. So apologies to everyone for the confusion.
SEELY, SEELY, SEELY! Wow, what a ride turned in by TLD/Lucas Oil Western Regional Supercross Lites rider turned Factory Honda Muscle Milk 450 pilot. The 805 kid did pretty well in his stint as a fill-in rider with Honda last year, but just like that, he topped all those performances last Saturday night with his ride in the Dirty South. Seely holeshot and led for seven laps, and while everyone kept waiting for the bubble to pop, Seely just kept leading laps. In fact, he was actually putting time on everyone! Sure, he finished sixth and was probably a little winded by the end, but hey, you lead laps against dudes with last names like Stewart, Villopoto and Dungey, you ‘da man. Golf claps from this corner.
Interestingly enough, Seely said that when Muscle Milk Honda team manager Erik Kehoe called about filling in for the injured Trey Canard, he actually had to think about it for a night. With Eli Tomac’s crash in San Diego, Seely is right back into the mix in the 250 west series, and he didn’t want to jeopardize his chances there. I think he’s nuts for even thinking about it, because last year when he filled in, he showed up at Seattle and waxed everyone. You cannot beat experience, and getting to experience a works Honda 450 against the best riders in the world is the ultimate, ahem, experience.
Barcia made it two-for-two in Atlanta.
Photo: Simon Cudby
Justin Barcia won the Lites class, which makes him two-for-two on the season. He looks like he’s on point this year, and even though he made a mistake and went down while leading his heat race, he got up and still came close to winning it. He’s better than anyone else in the class right now, and I’m waiting for Ken Roczen to step up and battle him. Sure, we saw Barcia and Blake Baggett get together in Atlanta, but Barcia rode away from him. Baggett will for sure get a win before this thing is done but right now, it’s Barcia’s class. He seems to still be revving the crap out of his bike but at the same time, he’s calmer and not such a spaz out there. Just like I commented about his teammate Tomac, Barcia just seems to be able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. His has supreme confidence right now, no doubt.
I caught some flak for my story last week stating that Barcia could’ve cleaned some dudes out in Dallas, but that he appeared to check up, and I stand by what I wrote. He’s not just parking guys out there like he used to. Even in practice he used to ride too aggressively in my opinion. I just don’t see that anymore, and he appears to be stepping it up to another level in 2012.
It’s interesting to me that no one rider has grabbed the mantle of, “Best of the Rest,” as the first rider to consistently grab the spot behind the “big guys.” Before Reed got hurt, that spot was fifth. Now it’s fourth. My theory is that once you get to the spot where you’re beating the rest of the field consistently, then you can work on attacking the top dogs. Here are the guys that have been the “Best of the Rest” through the first eight rounds.
Justin Brayton (Anaheim and Anaheim 2)
Jake Weimer (Phoenix and Dallas)
Brett Metcalfe (L.A. and San Diego)
Andrew Short (Oakland)
Davi Millsaps (Atlanta)
So as you can see, Weimer, Metcalfe and Brayton have been the “Best of the Rest” on multiple occasions. You know we’ll see Windham on this list soon, but until one guy can grab this honor and make it his own a little more consistently, I’m afraid we’re not going to see anyone run with Stewart, Dungey or Villopoto.
Let’s take a look at the results shall we?
Lites East Overall
1. Justin Barcia Hon
2. Blake Baggett Kaw - Baggett is just a tick off of Barcia’s pace so far this year.
3. Justin Bogle Hon
4. Blake Wharton Suz - Wharton was good, he’s definitely going to make the box this year and maybe, just maybe, win a race.
5. Darryn Durham Kaw
6. Ken Roczen KTM - Roczen hit the gate when his bike crept forward. He said he did not let the clutch out so I say blame the mechanic. That’s what always seemed to happen to me!
7. Kyle Cunningham - Very quiet ride by Cunningham, but solid after his first round DNF. It’s got to be discouraging for a potential race winner to be caught by Roczen from so far back though.
8. Hunter Hewitt Suz
9. Jake Canada Hon - Canada’s doing well on his Honda…errr…MCR250F.
10. Shane Sewell KTM - Nice to see a Sewell brother in the top ten. Life is better when one of the Sewells race.
11. Lance Vincent KTM
12. PJ Larsen KTM
13. Matt Lemoine Kaw - Not sure what happened to Lemoine, but based on his first-round speed, he should be better than this.
14. Les Smith KTM - Five KTMs in the main event, run for the hills!
15. Shawn Rife Hon
16. Levi Kilbarger Hon
17. Daniel Herrlein Hon - I know nothing about this guy. Seriously. Nothing.
18. Angelo Pellegrini Suz - Everyone’s favorite Italian now has a done up helmet, but as of yet, still has stock graphics on his shrouds.
19. Austin Politelli Hon
20. Bradley Ripple Hon
Wharton had another solid ride in Atlanta, finishing fourth.
Photo: Simon Cudby
Supercross Overall
1. Ryan Dungey KTM
2. Ryan Villopoto Kaw
3. James Stewart Yam
4. Davi Millsaps Yam- Great ride for Davi, he always does well at Atlanta in front of family and friends. He’s a past winner in Atlanta as well.
5. Justin Brayton Hon - It’s got to be tough for Brayton to hang in there despite injuries to his hand and leg that prevent him from practicing during the week.
6. Cole Seely Hon
7. Jake Weimer Kaw
8. Kevin Windham Hon - Windham’s got to be getting on the box one of these weeks. Maybe Toronto.
9. Brett Metcalfe Suz
10. Nick Wey Kaw - Wey’s been working with former Factory Yamaha rider David Vuillemin and it’s showing a bit. He’s been better the last few races than he was at the beginning of the year.
11. Kyle Chisholm Kaw - Chiz always seems to find Mike Alessi out there.
12. Mike Alessi Suz - Mike wasn’t very happy with Racer X this weekend for something that was in Racerhead, but I hope I smoothed it over. Any time a rider can man up and discuss some negative press with a writer, I commend that. Anyways, Mike told me that he’s really trying in supercross this year, more so than any other year of his career. And like everyone else outside of the big guns, he’s got moments where you think he’s got it, and moments where you think he’s unable to step up.
13. Matt Goerke Suz
14. Bobby Kiniry Yam - Kiniry, the LCQ king this year. Every main event he’s in, he’s made it through the LCQ.
15. Josh Hansen Kaw - Hanny’s team manager says that Hansen has been having a problem starting his bike at times, and in the main, he stalled it while running up there and lost a ton of time trying to get his bike fired back up.
16. Broc Tickle Kaw - Tickle had some rear brake problems early in the race and did the best he could.
17. Kyle Partridge Kaw
18. Jeff Alessi Suz - If you want some giggles, check out Jeff’s lap times from the main event. I like Jeff, he’s a funny kid with some serious talent but he’s running twenty seconds off the leaders’ times halfway through the race. He says he’s working himself into shape, but watching him and realizing it’s halfway through the series makes me think he’s not caring about getting better. Seriously, he’s rolling around out there. He’s got eight laps of a heat race in him and that’s it, he’s pulling the cord. Just kind of bums me out to be honest.
19. Justin Sipes Kaw - Pooh had a rough night.
20. Weston Peick Kaw - As did Peick.
While hanging out in the Honda pits sampling some Macaroni Grill catering with Weege, James Lissimore and John Knowles from SCOTT Goggles, we saw Jeremy McGrath walking by. After exchanging pleasantries with The King, we sat with him for twenty minutes talking shop. He’s happy with getting back into the sport in an ownership capacity, and went to Atlanta even though his team wasn’t there due to Short’s injury. We had a good honest talk about things that I can’t talk about, and then he wandered away.
I have always thought that MC was, and is, a class act on and off the track, and you’ll never hear me say anything bad about him. I’m not saying he’s perfect but when I was a grease-ball privateer mechanic, he didn’t have to be cool to me but he still was. He’s always had insightful opinions, never got a big head and just gets it. I think he’s handling the post-racing part of his career just as well as he handled his racing career, and I guess if I had to sum it up, I heart Jeremy.
It was a tough night for Mookie and JDR KTM in Atlanta, as a crash and mechanical troubles would cost Stewart a spot in the main.
Photo: Simon Cudby
The BBMX team picked up a new sponsor for their motors and suspension in the off-season in JGR Racing, and so far both sides are feeling each other out a bit. The JGR guys are trying to branch out to other brands to let people know they can do more than just one bike, and the BBMX guys love the attention they get from JGR, as opposed to some other companies that would put a team like BBMX down on the priority list. Jimmy Albertson and Jason Thomas went and tested for two days with the JGR guys, and said they were able to make big improvements to their machines. Neither guy made the main event in Atlanta, but look for them to be better with the improvements.
Bad deal for Malcolm Stewart and the JDR KTM team when Mookie was unable to make the second practice due to bike problems, then crashed while leading his heat. He looked to be done for the night but in a commendable move, he tried to line up for the LCQ. Unfortunately, his bike was unable to make it. That’s a tough blow to a potential podium rider and things couldn’t have been good underneath that tent after the race. I’ve been there folks, and it’s not good.
Thanks for reading, email me at [email protected] and let me know what you thought of Atlanta.
Did you like this article?
Check out TEAM HONDA AT DAWN
in our Latest issue of Racer X available now.
Forty years ago, Team Honda arrived on the American motocross circuit with a brand new motorcycle: the game-changing Elsinore CR250. Page 170.
Look for the verified symbol 
Impulse Studios
OK, we all know that Reed is not riding..
Pretty good article, so the penalty for him jumping the triple is 5 seconds?? Oh boy, dock him 5 seconds and go on with it. It doesnt change anything since Stewie basically gave up at the end anyway..
@Mofo--is that all you got out of that entire article?? Maybe you should read a little farther and not quit when you see the name Chad Reed,
@bd200,, sorry to disappoint you. I forgot how much you adore hime..
@TheChosen1 if a person is MOVING faster ie: RV...then yes they were fastest especially coming from a bad start. Doesnt mean your fastest if you are CONSISTENT. Just means you are consistent. Two different things. Dungey is lucky when the FASTER guys get bad starts.
I dont think I have heard anyone get docked time (seconds) in SX....
If Dungey gets good starts and the other boys are mired back in the pack, he is going to be hard to catch...RD always seems to pick up the pace when needed and more so when he has the chance to runaway....but I dont think he wants RV running him down every week either....I guess if the result is the same, he wont mind......RV lost that race trying to make a pass Dungey and a lapper coming out of the whoops....that killed all the ground he made up those last few laps.......Heres to some more good racing in St. Louis !
Mookie looked a little unhappy to me...
I have a mod that i guarantee will fix the Yamaha ....slide the rear axle out and slide the championship winning RMZ on to it ....fixed. and also stencil Pirelli on some works Dunlops. I kid......watch for the next generation YZF to be fantastic.....its how Yamaha has always done it. I like RV and Havoc coming from the back and#5 gettin a start ...makes for good racin'......to bad it won't happen when push comes to shove. Go RV , Go JB , Wharton and Mookie if it will start...put more weird angles on the KTM front fender that will fix it.
They need to back up the lights with more lights and flaggers? I'm not trying to start another argument on this again but really RV? There's two lights facing the section before the turn, a flagger in the turn and the two lights on the top of the triple. I have never raced supercross, but I can understand that two small lights at the top of the triple can be difficult to see when you are committed to your line. The flashing lights before the corner and the flagger waving a flag in the corner however should be a hint to glance up at the other lights. I may be wrong, but even Reed stated on the Pulpmx show that the lights before the triple can be seen well before committing to your line off the triple.
Also, coming from a JS7 fan, its kind of nice to take a lot of the spotlight in articles away from him. It was getting ridiculous since he wasn't meeting anyones expectations for the season. Lets hope on SX season is all JGR needs to get everything dialed and all the programs set up. SInce he's out of the points race now, they should just focus on solid set ups and good finishs rather than crashing to win.
BRING ON ST. LOUIS!!
Chillimatic
not making excuses but RV rode right thru the checkers in his heat and kept going......me thinks he was a little out of focus! Maybe getting over the illness?? Don't know but he was pretty erratic in the main as well.....
I wonder if Tyler Evans got a fine when he gave that UFC quality elbow to Doug DeHann a few years back.
I got hated on in the pulpmx chatroom when I predicted during the off season that chad reed would crash himself out. He was riding good, pushing the limits. Everyone saw Millville, he needed to calm down a bit. He wasn't riding like the most consistent rider in the sport. He picked it up, and therefore wasn't that consistent of a rider anymore.
Ripdown
Agreed, I forgot to mention that. He just did not seem like himself that night. He was charging hard but seemed to be making a lot more mistakes the he usually does. I never want to see a rider go down but right now in the series, to have RV struggle makes for some good racing.
Chilllmatic - I understand what your saying, but I would think he isn't paying all that much attention to the lights (even though he should) and went right by it. Even if your at a race you can barely see those things, having the power of the 450, goggles and a million other distractions probably doesn't make it easier. Still no excuse for RV he should pay more attention.
(not directed at Chilllmatic)
I personally think RD rode a great race, I think we can all see that RV was faster considering RD was out front and RV caught him (which I don't know how you could think RD was faster, just better).
RD did run an awesome race. He seemed to find his comfort zone and still was able to take it up a notch and ride smooth when he needed to. I along with millions of others would like to see JS, RV and RD start 1, 2 and 3.
@thetoothpussy, The fastest man wins the race, plain and simple, black and white! If the 2nd place rider was 5seconds a lap faster but finished 2nd, he was slower! You don't need proper Algorithm to come to this Hypothesis. RD5 said in his post race interveiw that he was racing well within his comfort zone and could have wicked it up if necessary
Steve, perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're saying Villopoto should've heeded the warning lights (if he saw them), but Stewart should have ignored them. In other words, screw the possible penalty in exchange for maybe advancing one position. If that becomes the mentality of all the racers, then the warning lights are pointless. Doesn't really make sense.
Here is the way I see it on who is the fastest at any given race. The gate drops at the same time for all 20 guys, the guy who runs all 20 laps and is the first to the checkered flag wins. So he did his 20 laps faster than everyone else, so he is the fastest guy at that race. Its not rocket science guys,
Rereading it (again) perhaps you were just saying Stewart shouldn't have given up at that point, in which case I agree with you. I guess I just figure that any professional should keep racing forward with five laps left. Not a dig on James, I'd say the same about anyone who did the same thing.
Agreed, BD. The don't give the first place trophy and 25 points to the fastest or the most consistent. They give it to the winner. Period.
Mathes on your webcast with Reed a few nights ago.Your producer was suspose to remaind you about Ben Townley to ride his bike in out doors.Well he didn't do that. Also by the way.That Rv deal and the flashing light on the out side of the turn was yellow when RV made the turn.Almost everyone that post on here saw that.Yellow is the key word here.It might of been red when he jumped everyone agrees it was to late to shut off at that point.
@BD200 you are right the one that gets to the checker wins but that doesn't mean his laps were faster.RV average lap time for all 20 laps was faster than RD's.Soooo,you were right yet you were wrong.Just saying.
dear retired-promixer, this is fun and I completly disagree with you. I think that the fastest guy does not always win- you CAN be fastest and not win. For example when RD's bike didnt start last year and he started 1.5 minutes later, He could have turned every lap faster and not won. The same goes for when you have a breakdown after running 19 laps the fastest as reed did 2 years ago, or someone causes you to wreck and you run the fastest laps of the race to get to third as RV did. You see my friend we realize that RD won the race last week and was fastest from start to finish, and we also realize he actually turned the third fastest lap time. This isn't about one race, its a series so really every single lap of the whole series matters no matter what position you are in on a given race. I was very happy with RV's performance sat espically being sick all week and still racing as hard as he did, I was proud. FACT RD won, FACT RV had the fastest lap. What that says to me is he still has the speed and drive to race hard and try to win even when he has a nice cushion. Don't get your feelings hurt when we say JS turned a faster lap, try being glad your guy won and glad someone else had something a little positive even though they didn't win. I would really be glad and comment if KW had the fastest lap whether he won or not, is this ok with you ?? Gosh lad could you just let us be happy fans?
Remember, in a series every lap and every point matters for every rider at every race. like RC says, you win a series on your bad days- meaning keep pinning it even after bad stuff happens.
Fred...not taking sides, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't what you mention because the average lap timing begins after the first lap is completed? As we all know, the start is a pretty important part of the race. Do people really care, other than for the sake of saving face for their favorite rider, who's got the fastest lap (average or single lap), when we all know who WON the damn race? For instance, if Roczen, who got stuck in gate, had the lowest average lap time for the whole race, it still doesn't mean squat if he doesn't get to the checkered flag first. I never understood why we started putting all this emphasis on lap times. Finishing order is the only thing that matters.
If I wanted some giggles Matthes, I wouldn't look at the main event lap times of Jeff Alessi....I would simply watch you get out of a chair
Fred.........the lights at the outside corner are yellow, the lights at the top of the triple are the red ones. If the lights at the top are yellow you can jump, if they are red you can't. Hope this helps. At least I think this is correct.
Dungey did a very good job at atlanta.
But seeing the race over and over again, it seem that KTM has a lot of things to do to make that bike work flawlessly in the whoops...
I've seen the dunge fought w/ the bike at whoops, and it clearly shows he's a bit struggling skimming those whoops...
c'mon, does anyone really think that a professional racer at the top of his game and in the points chase will recognize and ignore a warning light, then launch wide open over a triple, risking catastrophe?
@Fred--I dont see were I was wrong, they dont give 25 points for best average lap time, or the fastest single lap, its for winning the race, its what counts. Any guy involved in that race will tell you the same thing..
Maybe they should start by making the lights very very red and very very yellow. It seems that even after we watch on TV we can't determine if they are yellow or red.
When the really important thing is who wins, I don't know why it is so important to worry about who turned the fastest lap. Many many times the fastest guy on the track doesn't win. Anybody would take being the winner over the fastest guy any day, which is why starts are so important. I guess people think if you point out so and so was faster, it is taken as a knock on the win being less than legitimate? Don't worry about it, a win is a win regardless of whether it is because of a good start or someone else falling. What is up with the TV deal though, no mention at all of RV going down? Imagine watching an NFL game and hearing the next day you missed a key fumble and they never showed it or mentioned it. Hard to believe.
Thanks for the review of lunch at the Honda truck. No highlight about the titty twisters from RV at the Kawi rig?
I wonder what else was going on when RV went down. 70,000+ spectators would really make some noise when a guy of his caliber falters. I am not being critical of the coverage. I respect Ralph, Jeff, Ricky, and Erin.
As for the red light no red light incident, first and foremost I'm grateful no injury became of it. I think if RV said he was not at fault I believe it. It should be a time to reflect on what can be improved to ensure rider safety. Look at it as a blessing to be proactive before a repeat occurrence. This time it was not to late.
RV claiming he didn't see it is BS!!! ok enough on that.
For the LAPTIME watchers......before you say RV had the fastest laptimes out there, you need to go back and watche LAP 1!!! Yes, Lap 1, you know, the lap from when the gate drops until they see the green flag for the first time. Yeah that lap.
Oops, yeaah thats right it was Seely then Dungey, my bad I guess RV wasn't the fastest guy out there eveylap
@BD200 you are never wrong.Just like when you said sat.night that you couldn't pass on a yellow flag or the time you counted SX lites championships as major titles.We had to tell you that SXlites titles don't count for career stats.As usuall you don't read what the reply says that was made to you.Your right he won.Your wrong he wasn't the fastest.It real simple.Why I ever reply to you is beyond me.You are an effin idiot.Bless your heart.
@Coolhand I understand what the colors of the lights mean.I assumed the lights in the coner could be red or yellow as well.
@Rayn D you are correct.
I'll make it simple for everyone
FASTEST RACER = who cares
WINNER = the guy who did 20 laps and came out on top
@retired-promxer. RD is full of crap if he said that. Yeah I bet his plan was to let RV catch him huh? And if he had more in him then why would he let RV get that close. RD was riding that KTM harder then he has all year and giving it all he had. I think RD has proven he can only ride in his comfort zone. Proven in San Diego when Reed and Villopoto where flying through the whoops and RD could not get across them without having to jump through the last few. Along with finishing 22 seconds back when he was ahead of both CR and RV at one point in the race.
@Not4show. Your post makes no sense. No one said RV was the fastest every lap. They said he had the fastest lap and the fastest average lap time.
Only way Dungey wins this championship is if RV gets mid pack starts consistently or gets hurt. I don't see either happening.
@Fred, I dont know where you get this high and mighty crap from, but its not from me. EVERYBODY on here gives thier opinions, and mine is fastest lap times and all are neat to check out, but what counts is winning the race, I have always said that. I am an RV fan and want to say "He was the fastest, look at the lap times" but it doesnt mean a thing. And yes, I though you couldnt pass on the caution flag, big deal, sue me. But I NEVER said Lites titles were major titles, dont know who you are confusing me with, but I never said that was the case. It sounds like something the Stewtards come up with to say their guy has more titles than Reed or something. I like to count 125/250 outdoor Natiuonal titles, they mean something, but not supercross, its just a Regional title, sorry, you cant throw that on me. But I stick by my guns, lap times are a great item for conversation, but wins are what counts, ask any racer..
And your response actually sounded intellegent, but you had to throw the insults out, showing your class, or lack thereof..(and wrong about the lites titles, wasnt me)
I agree they need to have red (do not jump) lights befor the triple as well, not just on top. There were only yellow (can jump) lights before the triple. Especially with that track design, and how close the triple was coming out of the corner, I see it as an issue of seeing it last second. (But i still think you can see it, track is not that wide.)
BUT...
Every rider knows and is instructed at the riders meeting to watch for and obey the flags and lights, that they are there for an important safety reason. So it is every riders RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they are paying attention to the lights. If RV had actually landed on the guy that night, and seriouly hurt him, would the excuse of I didn't see it be excused by the AMA and other riders? This goes for every rider out there. You may be focused when racing out there, but its their responsibility to pay attention to safety markers also.
just my .02
The fastest rider is the one who wins. Might not have the fastest lap, or laps, but he was the fastest from the point where everyone started. But I see where this can be looked at form the other side too. Rider A crashes in the first turn, is 30 seconds down. Comes back to 1 second behind the winner at the finish. He was the faster rider out there, but didn't win.
"Motohead279 wrote: about 7 minutes ago
I agree they need to have red (do not jump) lights befor the triple as well, not just on top. There were only yellow (can jump) lights before the triple. Especially with that track design, and how close the triple was coming out of the corner, I see it as an issue of seeing it last second. (But i still think you can see it, track is not that wide.)"
That is my position on the matter as well, they had yellow lights at ground level right as the riders set up for the turn/triple that is directly after, I can see how the red lights on top of the triple could be a surprise. Having a set of yellows blinking followed by a set of reds blinking about 30 feet apart is asking for confusion. Both sets should have been red.
@BD200 yes you did.Hahahaha.Your the one who is all high and mighty.Bless you heart.hahahahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!
@fred,, See how bd200 accuses you of throwing insults out, when he doesn't even realize he did the same thing calling JS Fans "stewtards." Very strange guy...
The yellow lights before the jump means use cation ahead. So if you see the yellow lights and flag man before you are to be looking for the lights at the jump to what color they are. That means RV didn't even see the yellow I guess. Hey he made a mistake, it happens but don't sweep it under the rug. BTW I'm a RD and RV fan the most but respect them all.
I have seen my riders get hurt because of poor flagging. I am not saying it happened at this race. Some will jump on you, some won't, and sometimes it's a roll of the dice. Once it happens to most of us, a voice in the back of our heads says "be careful" when a warning is out.
I used to be known as the fastest guy out there- between crashes-lol.
Life is dangerous, for me I'll try to stick with safe, fun, fast...
The biggest problem here is the AMA...
in 05 Stewart and Byrne get docked 25 ppoints for illegal fuel (or 06) someone correct me...
Same thing happened to Reed in 04 letting windham back into the championship chase... - Rules broken Rules enforced.
in 06 Ricky gets dinged and rules not enforced! Same infraction - too much oxygen in the fuel (the FIM steps in on that one) Ricky says " I am not a cheater I didn't put the fuel in the bike" - guess what dude neither did Stewart, Byrne or Reed...
My point is if someone breaks a rule as WRITTEN in the rule book enforce it. Not everyone will like it but it will ensure fairness. - In this case if RV was docked 5 seconds he still would have finished second - zero sum game.
@mxmofo.I agree.But overall he's alright,I guess.Bless his heart.I think he needs to change his name to Chiwawa,yep yep yep yep.
hahahaha,,, yep, as long as he's a fan, he's ok,, even though his thought process is a little whacked at times, hahahaha..
Hey bd200 your theory that the person who runs all 20 laps and is first at the checkers is the fastest just killed the message board. There is now no longer anything worthy to talk about. LoL!
RV was faster, RD won. the times show speed not the winner.
@vrstinger, yes I guess I did kill it. But some guys cant take it if everyone doesnt agree with everything they say, actually from what I see only 2 guys cant take it. Some guys have to try and chime in when they arent even part of the discussion, but thats OK. Some guys I dont really care if I agree with because they are kinda ignorant or just not open minded to discussion. But I dont know what was so hard about this discussion, You all start at the same time, and race for 20 laps, the guy who finishes all 20 wins and is the fastest one. Its pretty simple really. But some guys are so simple its like Chinese arithmatic to them, hahaha!!..
As for the light, RC said on TV what RV did was OK so I will take his word for it.
dinosaurmedia.. I agree 100%..The AMA is all over the place with this crap. I heard RC told them he was not racing so they droped the fine and gave him his points back cuz it would have cost them a lot of money.
Friends, the guy with the fastest average lap time wins. Every single time. This is a simple math problem. The gate drops and he's the first one to the flag. He has the shortest overall total elapsed time over the exact same distance as all other riders. Since velocity = distance / time, by definition the first one to the flag is the fastest overall rider. No wiggle room on that.
TPowell82 it's really not that clear cut even though it should be. The word "FASTEST" is the issue. It can mean more than one thing very easly. One can easly say RV was the fastest and show the lap times. One can also say RD won the race he is the fastest. Both guys are right . It's all what "Fastest" means to you. To me its the fastest guy RV this time. RD is the winner this time. Look at Southwick last year moto 2 when RD's bike did not start. RD was hands down the FASTEST guy there but he got 4th that moto. No one could EVER convince me that RD was not the fastest that moto. see what I mean?
Or how about this one, Anothe RD story, last year in TX he was Killing it and ran out of gas and Reed won... Again RD was the Fastest hands down but did not win.
Matthes,
I always enjoy your observations, but your comment about Daniel Herrlein was a little bit weak. I don't know anything about him, either. However, based on the fact that he qualified for the night show in the 250 class at an AMA Supercross means that he's really fast compared to the rest of us. And the fact that he made the main event and then scored a handfull of AMA points means that he's a badass! Daniel, my man, Steve and I don't know you, but we both admire your skills. Ain't that right, Steve?
I understand when someone says "so-n-so" was fastest because he turned a fastest lap, buts its only ONE lap.. But he wasnt the fastest for the whole race. The guy who won was. If I race a guy for a mile-4 laps around a track, and I get to the finish before him, I ran that mile faster than he did. Even if one of his laps were faster than mine, I was still faster over the mile, and that is what the race was. Same as here, I am a huge RV fan, but Dungey beat him, because he was faster for the entire overall race. Winning is the biggest thing here, who cares about one lap.
BillC, I remember the sory you are talking about. Supposedly the AMA did a fuel check, and RC's fuel had a higher content of oxygen than it was supposed too. So the AMA docked him a ton of points. RC made the point to say the rule was outdated, because it doesnt help 4-strokes make more power. That was a rule for 2-strokes, were the higher oxygen content helps those bikes. The AMA tried to stick by thier guns. RC said if he was going to lose a title that way, by outdated rules, he would just finish the season training for his car racing career.. The AMA realized it was a dumb rule, and the fuel didnt help RC's bike gain any power , and backed off. Gave him his points back. That was big deal for about a week. I bet if the fine was just money, RC would have paid it and went on, they were taking 25 points away from him I think..
Who does this goofball FRED think he is anyway?? Just because somebody doesnt agree, he throws out the "EFFIN IDIOT" statement on a guy?? What a tool. FRED is also the guy who told people they were "late to the game" when he was discussing the light scandle on RV. Like FRED has the right to put a time limit on the conversation.. And of course the phony "MXMOFO" has to try and jump the conversation and get a jab in, because he isnt smart enough to do it alone. So if he can jump in, let me--FRED and MXMOFO are idiots and tools.. They are made for each other, have a great date you two..
Besides, everyonme knows that MXMOFO and Whatever are the same guy anyway, the "Iowa Boy" Its well known here, so quit the phony name..
I thought the RC fuel deal was about to much lead.Oxygenated fuel can give 4strokes more power Not 2strokes.Wrong again BD200.BD you need to go checkout sign of the lap times from a few days ago.RV had a faster average lap time for 20 laps.
We're still on this issue with fastest/winner? Anyone watch football? Does the best team always win? Can a team not be killing the other team all day long yet still make a few mistakes and lose? Never do the analysts say the best team won, but the winning team won for sure. Many races Danny Chandler entered he was the fastest, not a fraction of them did he win. We've seen titles go to the rider that was more consistent, not faster. So, please stop with this fastest vs. winner crap. The winner is not always fastest, the fastest is not always the winner. Sometimes there is a lot more to winning than just going fast. The winner and champ is all that matters, period. So don't get yer panties all bunched if your winner is not said to be the fastest. AND if you're going to explain to us how the average lap times work, learn how it works before doing so. The fastest average lap does not always win, TPowell82, because they don't time the "first" lap from the start. I think they start timing it from when they first pass the finish line on the first lap. Sometimes that is early in the lap sometimes it is late in the lap. It is sometimes the case that the first timed lap is almost after a whole lap has been run. RV's avg. lap time was faster than Dungey's at Atlanta......and that's with one lap some 4.5 seconds slower than his fastest. But it matters not at all because Dungey took home the 25 points! He had the best race, he won. It doesn't matter if his avg lap time was .021 seconds slower, but it was that slight bit slower.
@thereal mofo.Thank for the kind comments.I hope I didn't offend you husband to much.Hahahahahaha.
I don't see what the arguing is all about. Ryan Dungey won the race, and that will never change. RV was within 2-3 seconds for the majority of the race and RD5 ran a fast enough pace that RV could not catch and pass him. Dungey stepped it up and ran his fastest lap on lap 20 which indicates that he had more in the tank if need be. RV1 was all over the place trying to run Dungey's pace which Dungey was doing comfortably. Like I said before, Dungey is on a new bike/team and is still trying to get that bike dialed to where he can push it a little more. Once that happens, Dungey will be winning more and more which will probably give BillC a heart attack. It's inevitable that Dungey will be a future champ. Last season he was two DNF's away from winning both titles. This season has already been a success for him and team KTM, but it is still a huge learning curve getting that bike set up (whereas RV has his bike set-up dialed to perfection). Next season, I expect Dungey to have a huge lead in the series at the half-way point. Also, liek I mentioned before, Daytona will be Dungey's time to shine and I predict he will win that one going away.
@therealmofo,, sorry bud,, but I'm an original.. I have no clue who "whatever" is.. Trust me, I will swear on my Kids life that I don't know.. Now get back to your therapy session...
@Fred, what does RV being faster average l;ap times have to do with anything?? I NEVER said he didnt. I just said that lap times are a well and good, but the MOST important thing is winning the race, and Dungey did that. That is all I said and how all this got started.. Dont even really know what your argument is, I just think the most important thing is winning. They ALL start at the same time, and Dungey beat RV to the finish line. They start all the official lap time stuff after the completion of the first lap. Find a sight that takes thier time from the gate to the finish, Dungey will be faster. Its all in how you look at it. I dont feel lap times are the most important thing when it comes to who is the fastest. The guy who wins is the fastest on that night. Like I said, I am WAAAY more an RV fan than a Dungey fan, I would love to say RV was the fastest guy, just had bad luck blah blah blah, bgut Dungey beat him, straight up, no BS, so that makes him faster that night. RV went down even I know, bit he was behind Dungey when that happened too. I just dont put a whole lot into fastest lap times.. Sorry...
Yes, there is no doubt Dungey will win Daytona "going away".........
I don't think they've done any outdoor testing yet, but I'm sure Dungey will dominate. He will easily have a big lead at the halfway point NEXT year too. So completely obvious it goes without saying.
It is amazing to see how much those 2 little skullies on the back of a Fox jersey can improve a guy's abilities.
MXmofo: at one point me and bd200 were accused of being the same person, I think by Whatever. I think I was accused of being someone else as well once....also by Whatever.....or maybe he accused all 3 of us being the same person? I forget.
@Fred leave BD200 alone... I was the one that said oxygenated fuel...I believe JS and MB got docked for too much oxygen with reed in 04 and ricky got dinged with too much lead in 06 so clarifying there. The larger point is that the rules as written need to be enforced lead, oxygen or otherwise.
for a guy "the goat" to whine and say he isn't going to race anymore KINDA turned me off. Reed didn't say that and he was leading the points at the time they took 25 pts. from him.
JS and MB were not in contentio for the title and could have cared less.
People make mistakes...some people on here are wayyyyy to sensitive. Check the ego's at the door kids.
@ B-KR, yes, those two skulls say a lot when you are on a brand new team/bike. I know that you are the king of back-handed compliments toward Dungey, but I also believe that you stated at one time that if RV was only a few seconds back from Dungey after the first lap, that Dungey would not have a chance. You had supposedly backed that up with facts and laptimes. I disputed your facts and it looks like I was right, after all. :)
@B-KR,, hahahahaha
yep yep yep yep
Funny how J_Sloan has not been seen for 3 weeks then RD wins one and here he is!!! Can't stand fair weather fan's..
. Also if RD beats RV I will be fine. I am still waiting for the day RD run's him down and passes him. Lots of sure things you put out there too...Corse if they don't happen you wont be around any way so does it really matter?
I also like how you say he was 1 0r 2 sec back the whole race!! LOL NOT!! He was over 4sec back in 6th, almost passed RD, messed up fell back ran him down again, fell closed back up again so I am pretty sure RV had more speed than RD did. Sure it did not work out thie time but sure looked a lot dif to most than what you said happen. So tell me if RV crushes RD this weekend will we see you next week??LOL
@BillC, I know you have probably been having panic attacks since RD beat RV, but take some deep breaths and read what I actually wrote. I did not say that RV "...was 1 0r 2 sec back the whole race", I said that "RV was within 2-3 seconds for the majority of the race", which he was. 19 laps to catch and pass Dungey while only 2-3 seconds most of the time and he still could not do it. But let's be like and make things up and say he was 6 seconds back after the first lap. Let's assume that to be the case. While in 6th place, only 6 seconds back with 19 laps to go, RV still couldn't get the job done because Dungey was running too fast for RV to make up the time and pass him.
RV was making all kinds of mistakes trying to catch Dungey, while Dungey wicks it up on the last lap, as if to say to RV, "Go ahead and try to catch me, I am more speed on tap...here watch this"...braaaap...clears some sections clean while RV looses time because he's not running them cleanly.
As for not being here, well I have been here. I gave RV credit for racing his races and being the man to beat out there. I still think he has the momentum on his side. But I can also see that the more and more Dungey gets that bike dialed in, the harder it's going to be for RV. This last race was proof of that.
Gentlemen: Yes I'm a Dungey fan(RV my second fav) but I had an excellent seat in Atlanta Saturday and, trust me, the only way RV or Stewart were gonna pass Dungey on that night was lappers-and that almost did cost Dungey. The TV guys failed to even mention it but lappers hurt Dungey really bad-that's how RV got as close as he did in that corner where he spun out. RV has been faster for a while now and I understand why people think he could've caught and passed him but every time RV would get within a couple seconds you could see Dungey pick it up. I was even surprised a little because the Katoom has looked ruff so far to me. Dungey looked like he did back in 2009 and 2010. Now with the whoops coming up this weekend I'm worried for the Dunge a little.
Thank you, RCRDDW, that was a good report.
granted, i didn't read the whole article. i think matthes is trying but, hearing his take on villopoto being the "real winner" minus his mistakes was enough to let out what i've been keeping in for a while. first, shave the goatee. second, i might step in and start competing with you on the media front. we'll see. not pleased.
btw, when you click jonesaustin - that ain't me.
I think another debate about the whole "fuel gate" was that I read somewhere that if the gas was stored in a metal container for even a very little amount of time it could absorb enough lead to make it over the AMA rules limit. One of the reasons that it was changed.
Jsloan "I know you have probably been having panic attacks since RD beat RV"
.Thats the problem with me talking to people like you who are not on here everyday. If you were you would know that on Saturday afternoon after I saw RD in practic I posted that he looked GREAT, BEST he EVER has on the KTM and red44m(i think thats who) and myself said could be trouble tonight. Also i have said MANY times that when RD gets a good start he is trouble. So if anyone is biased or onesided I think it might be you. Also YOU makle things up that I never said "But let's be like and make things up and say he was 6 seconds back after the first lap" You say he was never more then 3 sec back and that is a LIE. Go watch the race again... They show the gap it was over 3 sec so you are mistaken. You like to talk about RD's fast last lap but guess what it was still way slower then RV's best lap so RD better have a LOT more in the tank. Still waiting for you to tell me about a time that RD ran down RV.... nutin yet??
Sloan, you're hysterical. Obviously, the same outcome isn't going to happen every single race. When you see Dungey start 6th and finish 20 seconds back and see RV start 10th and run Dungey down and ride his butt to the end, you see no difference huh? I'm seriously insulted by your comment of "back-handed compliments" because I'm being objective, you are not. Dungey would be my 2nd favorite guy and I routinely rooted for him AGAINST RV in 2010 and back in the 250 class. Back then I also was able to be objective and see who was faster, despite when Dungey won. The times he won though, he was the best rider that day. Didn't mean he suddenly was better overall, just for the day. Yet people like you have to make it more than it is and proclaim you are so smart for backing the best guy. BillC brings up a great point, where the hell were you when Dungey was nailing down 4ths 20 seconds back after having RV and Reed blow by him in the whoops on the 1st lap? RV should never have gotten close to Dungey last week if they are so evenly matched, in fact that start should have given Dungey a big lead. The big problem was that RV was catching Dunge while having to pass the likes of Brayton, Millsaps, Metcalfe, etc. For your sake (and Dungey's), maybe there will be no more big whoop sections for the next 9 rounds.
Uh oh, people are going to start thinking me and BillC are the same guy!
This is why we race people.Becuase a race can not be predicted. There is a lot more to a race than just having the fastest lap times. You need a great start, mistake free and consistant fast laps oh and a little luck like getting around lappers.I love all these guys and really don't have a favorite, but RD5 won becuase he did all the above perfectly. RV did not do all the above perfectly. He got a bad start and made a few mistakes. If you race then you know it is a package deal. So what every one wants to see you will never see and that is RD5 and RV the only two on the track from start to finish to see which style of rider will win. RV the Sprinter or RD the pacer. Oh and by the way a race is a battle. These guys want to win the war(championship). And a championship consists of points accumalated not best lap times accumalated.Not a sermon just a thought.
B-KR your safe.... You spell much better then I LOL
@ BillC I never said that RV was never more than three seconds back, I said that for the majority of the race he was only 2-3 seconds back. That's twice now that you have misappropriated what I have said, and that's why I said you make things up. You are hung up on the fastest lap for some strange reason. I suppose it's because RV did not win and you need something to feel better about. At any rate, there are 20 laps, and that's why the single fastest lap doesn't mean very much. Dungey got the signal that RV was getting closer and POW, Dungey grabs a handful of throttle, goes through some technical sections with his usual smooth style, and pulls a faster lap than RV could muster. In fact, it was Dungey's fastest lap of the night, after the track was worn and beaten and rutted up, while RV's fast lap was earlier in the race when the track conditions were better.
@B-KR, You have payed Dungey so many back-handed compliments it's not even funny. Then you turn around and always tell me about how you defended him in 2010. RV was in 6th place a few seconds back from Dungey at the end of the first lap. He had plenty of time to catch up to Dungey, but he failed to do so. In fact he finished about the same amount of time behind Dungey once Dungey wicked it up on the last lap. So your analogy (about Dungey starting in 6th and finishing 20 seconds behind in a different race while RV started in 10th and only finished a few seconds behind ) fails because different races give you different laptimes and different conditions. Yet here you are trying to compare them as if they are comparable in any reasonable sense when they are not. RV was right there at the end of the first lap, and I believe that you previously told me that if RV was that close to Dungey at the start of the race, he would pass Dungey. You want to make a lot out of RV catching Dungey but he was only 2-3 seconds back for the majority of the race. And it's like the previous poster said, a person who was there, it was the lappers that slowed Dungey up and allowed RV to close in. In fact, RV tried to use a lapper against Dungey and it didn't work out.
There is no doubt that RV has the speed and the momentum at this point, but like I said, the more Dungey gets that KTM dialed in, the more he closes that gap on RV. I'll ignore your comments about the big whoops sections since we both know that Dungey is still getting his bike dialed. Anyone who was as objective as you have claimed to be would have mentioned that's why Dungey is struggling in the bigger whoops.
"Dungey got the signal that RV was getting closer and POW, Dungey grabs a handful of throttle, goes through some technical sections with his usual smooth style, and pulls a faster lap than RV could muster"
.LMFAO Good stuff. Maybe they should give RD that pit board every race if he has that much in the tank!!
.Also why do you keep saying that I need something cuz RV did not win......OH yeah thats right you don't come on here enough to really know how I feel.
.PS I really hope RD wins again this week so you don't disapear on us again...Your funny.
Ok... now group hug.