Monday Conversation: Ryan Dungey
Monday, January 16, 2012 | 10:30 AM
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After a strong ride and a podium finish at the Monster Energy Supercross opener in Anaheim last weekend, it was clear Ryan Dungey wasn’t missing a beat after his switch from Suzuki to Red Bull KTM. He took it up a notch in Phoenix by jetting off with the holeshot and checking out en route to a win. Afterwards, we talked to him about the triumph.
Racer X: Did you think that within two rounds, you’d get a win? Was that a realistic goal? Are you exceeding your expectations?
Ryan Dungey: No. I think, I guess to start it off, I race to win. Nothing more, nothing less. There’s gonna’ be some nights where you don’t always win, but at the same time, tonight was a big step to get that win, especially for KTM, their first win in the United States. I think it was a big win for all of us. When I signed that contract, I made that commitment to myself that hey, I’m on the best bike out there and I’ve got the best people around me and I never look back. Although tonight was tonight and there’s a lot more racing left, I think it’s important that we keep moving in the right direction and try to keep this momentum moving forward.
It took Dungey all of two races to bring home KTMs first-ever SX win.
Photo: Andrew Fredrickson
When you made that choice, there had to have been some people who were like, “KTM, really? These guys have never been on the podium before." Did you ever doubt it yourself?
No, not at all. I mean, we had a great off-season of testing. I’ve said it a couple of times, but I’ll say it again, what Austria had to do on the turnaround to get this bike ready was really short. I think a lot of guys worked through the holidays and stuff to make this happen. That in itself was great. It was a huge commitment and a lot of heart in my eyes. So, to be able to have a team like that, that believes in you and you believe in them right there I think makes a happy team, which, down the road, you hope for success. It was a big improvement. Last weekend, I didn’t get off to the greatest start and I got shuffled around a little bit, which you saw, Ryan got away. And Chad, too. Then tonight, it made it so much nicer to get a start, obviously, and you can ride your own lines. I was able to build that little bit of a cushion to ride the whole 20 laps consistently and by myself. That’s always key. You’re not getting pushed around, you’re not getting taken out.
Well it had to be a relief, because last year the starts just were not coming often in supercross. It’s been a while--in supercross--since you’ve been up front like that off the start, right?
I mean last year was last year. It was a great year even though we didn’t win the title, we were still there to the end. This year, we’ve still got a lot of racing left. This is only round two of seventeen, but I’m glad we were able to get this win in under our belt and I think for myself and the team, it’ll be a big step. I’ve seen the countless hours that the team puts in, that my family put in, that I put in. It’s a team effort. It takes a lot of people to make a lot of things go right and I’m just really happy. Tonight was a big win, but I gotta’ give a lot of credit to the team and the man above and I’m just really fortunate I’m able to walk out of here.
Dungey celebrates his first win of 2012 with Red Bull KTM Lites rider Marvin Musquin.
Photo: Andrew Fredrickson
Now, because this is a new bike, are there massive gains you think you can still make, or do you feel like you're pretty much where you need to be?
I think the massive gains, we’ve tried to find those in the off-season. I think we’ve got a great setup. It’s always going to be a little fine tuning here and there. I think it’s important we have an open mind for newer and better things, if we can find it. And I know we’re always going to be on the lookout and be sure to keep trying to improve in areas, if we can, and not settle.
But you’re already kind of there. You’re not in, “We gotta’ change this, we gotta change that, we’re just getting started” mode. Are you where you want to be?
Yeah, I mean to win races, that’s the ticket. But as the season goes on, it gets more and more heated and it gets more intense and we’ve got to be ready for that. It’s gonna take a lot of race wins and, at the same time, being consistent and being there every single weekend. Like I said, this was a big step in the right direction for the whole team.
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Happy to see this, Great for KTM!!!!
And RD!!
Congrats to RD5, RD104, and the rest of the KTM team!!!! As a Dungey fan I am ashamed to say I didn't think he would get a win this season. I knew he would be on the podium alot, but they as a team have came along way in a very short time!
This is so great for Dungey, guys said it would never happen.. Guys said Dungey would be lucky to get a win anyway.. And of course all the know-it-alls said Dungey career was over. I wonder where those guys are now?? Not here shooting off thier mouths that is for sure..
Always easier when you nail that start!!! It was cool to be there in person to see this first KTM victory....I never thought it was a career killer like some folks had stated, that was simply silly to state......I did think it would happen this year, but not round 2....Racing is racing and a win is a win....but with that comes luck, which is a part of racing as well...Luck played a big role on Saturday with other guys going down or getting those horrible starts..RD got that cushion by the 5th lap and never looked back, just like Toronto last year he never had to worry about a challenge and rode his own race, like he was out at the practice track.....When RD gets a start with RV, JS and CR in tow, then we'll see how things stand...
I LOVE IT!!!!!! Dungey could have one both supercross and motocross championships last year. Broke Chain, Running out of Fuel, bike not starting at Southwick.
I know RD can win the championship and eather Kenny or Marvin can with the outdoor championship.
KilloMoto, in that case anyone who gets a start and wins is lucky, I don't buy it. It's not lucky that he won Saturday at all.
Yea i agree, he took the holeshot, checked out, and never looked back, what more do you want from him? its not like he holeshotted and then everyone caught up to him like tedesco and alessi. you can`t take anything away from dungey
Dear Ryan, It's going to be a long year as you control the points race. Thanks in advance for handling all the daily stress leading the points delivers. Your fans are here and believe in you.
I think its weord that JS & Millsaps were the only Yamahas that made the main. Right now Yamaha has the worst reputation. That 450 didnt get good reviews. I dont know why JS stuck with blue.
Need to follow this up with an interview with "The Man".
I rode the 2011 KTM 450 and like it a lot. I am however 6'2" so I like a more open bike. I love my 2012 KX450.
O will look very hard at the KTM450 in 2013. With the new motor, electric start, brembo brakes, hydraulic clutch, linkage! and the weight will likely be on par or lighter than all but the midget bike (Honda).
As for who can and will be able to win on any given night, it is good to be wher ewe are, where a rider is not so dominate that they can crash and still win. Ok, RV is freaking amazing 18th - 3rd, but no win.
It is always good to have any number of guys who can win.
Weimer and KW, 2nd and 4th? Hell yes! Our sport needs 5 - 10 guys who can make the podium, not necessarily win, but get on the box. Spreads the sponsor coverage around.
Now, let's get the damn media to start doing interviews with the top 5 - 10 in the points standing and then some air time during the race.
I love all of it! The drama, the not knowing, the anything can happen! By Sunday it is already killing me I have to wait a week for the next race...ARGH!
I watched the race last night. (big golf weekend) and I was really impressed with RD5. Good win for him and KTM. this is anyones title right now.
What a great PRO. A lot of riders would help themselves to emulate RD.
@Retard - I wouldnt say it like that exactly.... Luck in this case was in the form of RV having bad luck going down or the other top guys getting bad starts allowing him to "check out" if you will.......In my opinion after watching RD in practice and the heat race, If the other guys were right behind RD at the start I dont think the result would have been the same, luckily for him they were not ...Yes, Dungey won the race and did what he had to do, no denying that...He rode 20 perfect laps while some others had misfortune or bad luck....hope that makes sense...it does to me hahaha
@open_class Don't hold your breath thinking it will be lighter. In the 250 class the KTM has went from the most powerful and lightest to the heaviest and least powerful in the span of a couple years. And the 350 weighs as much (if not more than) the CRF450. I love KTM and what they do, but they need to get the hp up and the weight down.
I think it is great to see Ryan's committment to the the team and himself. Ryan is a class act and is doing what he gets paid for. He has already shown he can win races, but the question is, could he do it on a KTM, yes! So this should be a great season with some more front runners. I am glad for all of them of and the hard work they put in. It shows that another manufacturer can be a player. Maybe next year we will revive the CZ team. lol
Congrats to a classy bunch! That KTM already seems on par with last years Suzuki and the team as a whole has it going on compared to last years Suzuki team. I haven't seen RD5 look that comfortable since the 2010 championship season. What a future for our sport with the 2 Ryan's!!!
Congrats to Ryan, Roger and KTM! That looks like a sweet machine.
Thanks above all else to The MAN upstairs, Jesus The Lord and Savior!! Like Ryan said!!
Cant wait til next weeks race.
Anyone know if its on live??
"Maybe next year we will revive the CZ team. lol" Yes, and let's not forget Hodaka, Bultaco, TM, Zundap, Maico, Ossa, Jawa, Puch and good old American Penton!! FACTORY RIDES FOR EVERYONE! YAAAYYYY!!!!
He's only going to get better.
The thing is RV or JS can win from almost anywhere. The same can not be said for RD. When he gets a start he is strong but I really don't see him running RV down and passing him for a win but I can see RV running him down for sure!! There are a few guys who can win when things go well but very few who can make it happen.
Great Job Ryan, "DUNGEY RULES !!!!!!!!!!!! " You all remember YZ Sean. What ever happened to that guy ? CZmark, I had a Red framed Falta Replica in the late 70's just cause it was sooo cool. Burned up in a fire, dammit
Holeshot, L.A. SX is on CBS next week I think
Even Reed, Hell he was stuck behind Metty for ever, RV runs them both down blows by and is gone , 3 laps latter Reed finaly makes the pass on Metty. RV is the AlfaMale right now no question. Turned the fastest lap of the race in trafic!!
McMoto that "guy" has not showed his face much sence RV, JS and Reed came back. I told him then it would happen and it did.
So happy to see this happen for RD and KTM, just awesome. I was saying this was my favorite team overall during the off season and they had a great night. It is true that it is only the second race of the season but i'm just glad to see them get their first win in the SX class. The rules are no different here than they are for anybody....Dungey was better than everybody else on saturday, you have to get the start, put in good laps and STAY UP....he did all of those things and the other top guys did not....he was better!! Keep it up Ryan, stay consistent and try and get a few more of those wins and it just might get you a title this year!!
Maybe it is just me or maybe not, but that a-stars add blinking off and on made this a challenge to read.
@McMoto- sorry to hear that dude. I am sure buy now it would have been a great show and converstion piece.
Indeed Bill C ....I was at the race watching RV and JS all day. ...they make their passes happen quick and make them easy....People are dumping on James, but I think he is riding pretty good....If RV and James had an open track, you would have seen the same thing happen....After watching RD during the day and the heat, I dont think he would have sliced through the field like RV and JS did....His heat race he was stuck behind Milsaps the entire race.....and milsaps is just barely crackin' the top 10....comparing lap times with an open track is night and day difference to people battling and held in traffic.....
Ryan is one of the classiest guys in the pits. I've been a huge fan of his since he came out. He always says the right things, doesn't hype himself up, works hard, and gets results. Nailing the start was definitely key to that win but it's also worth pointing out how he immediately started gapping the field. The first half lap it was obvious he was faster than everyone else. I know RV put in a sick charge and was flying but this was Dungeo's night.
TomKtm yes he gaped the field but who was it in 2nd?? Thats the point many are trying to make. I say if Mudflaps did not fall in front of RV he would have run down RD and won. Thats not a knock at Rd either its just what the lap time say.
what happened to Ryan's neckbrace?
If getting the holeshot made for a win every time Alessi would be a multi time champ...............
@Killomoto I agree with you 100%! Ryan did a great job but how many chances is he going to get that RV,JS7 and Reed are at the back of the pack on lap 1 and Trey was on cruise control. RD rode an amazing race but he will have to keep improving to win this title. (and he might) but RV is on fire and it is not going to be easy to put out. At a time when the econemy is destroying everything, it is the best time to be a motocross fan ever!
@BillC What do the laptimes say? Here they are:
Average lap time laps 2-10: RV 53.217, RD 52.649
Average lap time laps 2-15: RV 52.983, RD 52.846
Average lap time laps 2-19: RV 52.879, RD 52.977
This does not factor in lap 1 (which RV crashed), or lap 20 (which RD cruised). Basically, for the first 15 laps, Dungey was going faster than RV. It's not that implausible that Dungey backed off at least a little bit on laps 15-20, but whatever the case, the laptimes do not indicate that RV would have caught and passed Dungey. I understand that RV is on fire right now, and he is the guy to beat. when he rides he looks super fast. Dungey did not look as fast, but the truth of the matter is, Dungey was going just as fast.
I'm all for bench racing and having your favorite riders, but there sure are a lot of RV fans that pay a lot of backhanded compliments to Dungey.
@ J_Sloan,, you seem to be forgetting one very improtant thing,, and that is,, RV was coming through traffic, and RD was not....
Something interesting that was brought that increased Dungeys early lead was on lap 2, when all the other riders rolled through the triple as they were attending to a knocked out Jimmy Albertson and fishing Nick Wey, Dungey had still jumped the triple....I was at the race and I was worried about the riders coming back through that section as medical folks and flaggers were all over the track and was honestly suprised they didnt red flag the race.....they didnt show that on TV
@ mxmofo1......There is also the chance RD could have picked up the pace a bit as required if needed. It's all speculation.
RD deserved the win, no doubt. I wouldn't say he was lucky anymore than luck is always a part of moto racing. He might not move through the pack as quickly as RV or JS, but Ryan has shown on multiple occasions that if he is within striking distance he can mount a late race charge on ANYONE. Now if he would only get a little meaner,(or mean at all).
Luck has not been on RD's side a whole lot. Broken chain, running out of gas, bike not starting, these things almost never happen at the pro level. With a little better luck he could easily have been outdoor and SX champion last year.
@mxmofo1
That's true, but it could just as easily be said that Dungey had a comfortable margin out front and was NOT pushing. We know that RV was pushing to get through the pack to the front, and it's not like RV had riders in front of him at all times. He had plenty of clear track, and Dungey had lappers.
@KilloMoto Dungey gained on the pack from the start and up to about lap 15. One crash doesn't explain all the other laps where Dungey was faster and gained more of a lead. Also, Dungey did not triple the triple, he doubled it.
I'm a little baffled why so many RV fans refuse to give Dungey credit and instead pay him backhanded compliments. Are you guys even fans of the sport or do you have to tear other riders down to build your own favorite rider up?
BillC can't you say something nice about RD and let it go? You always have to say but if so and so didn't fall and so on. It's too early in the seasons to start already. We had to listen for 2 years the same thing every sentence you made. You a sore loser ?
Hey the guy made history give him some credit, not kick him in the balls.
Okay, I hate when people say ''Oh if Dungey's chain didn't fall off he would of won the championship.'' Or about running out of fuel or something. I also hate it when people people say if Villopoto didn't crash at St.louis we would of won. Well the fact is, that's racing and why even try to play the ''if'' game? Yeah when you give Dungey the points he would of got, he would of been the champ yeah if everything else played out the way it did. But at Unadilla when RD and RV were 1 point apart, RD got stuck behind Barcia. At Atlanta 2010, RV went for a jump when he knew he wouldn't make it, and went over the bars and gave up like 22 points. I am not trying to take anything away from either of these riders because they are both great people on and off the track, I am saying please stop playing the ''if'' game because it's just racing. Who ever is the champ this year, clearly they did something right even if someone crashes out or DNF's a race because they would of put themselves in the position to take advantage of that, and in my book that means they're a deserving champion.
@ J_Sloan,, I assure you that RD was "pushing" pretty hard the 1st half of the race so he could get a comfortable lead. RD did not have lappers until the end of the race. Also, RV is not going to push as hard as he can. He wanted a podium finish, and that's it. Also, I like RD better than RV anyway, because he's a Mid-Western Boy...
I'm just telling you that you can't compare lap times between two riders that are in different situations..
Win like you lose and lose like you win! This is why KTM will be a dominant force going forward. Great Team! Great Focus!
Well said cool hand an you better watch it j-Sloan! Any talk of RD and his colossal bad luck will surely result in consequential torrents from Bill c and his rv crew of how he sleepwalked all titles in'10 despite every player lining up at A1. Like Tomktm I am also an RD guy, but a fan of racing first so the objectivity of my smoky mind requires I never make comments of speculation either way. Twk1 got one thing right though, best time ever to be a dirt bike fan, now who can argue with that.
At some point RD was dealing with lapped traffic and was still putting down thosew fast lap times too was he not?? J-Sloan, it's kind of funny how all the JS fans always got their but t s reamed for making a comment about JS crashing and NOT winning, and now some are saying the exact same thing about RV...bottom line is on saturday in Phoenix Ryan Dungey rode the best race, end of story, had lap times as good as anybody, kept it up on two wheels, and probably DID adjust his pace based on pit board info in order to keep from throwing it away.....whether he will do it again remains to be seen, so why can't you just give credit where it's due on this one people?? "IF" "IF" "IF"
Yes you can compare lap times, that is called qualifying. RV had a 1/2 sec. on RD. I am a RV and RD fan but anyone who believes that Dungey could beat RV straight up at this time has not been watching the same races as I have. RV has been the fastest, the best passer by far and more importantly he handles pressure better than any current racer. Hace at it boys!
J_Sloan... PLEASE!!! RV had the FASTEST lap in trafic!!! avg don't mean crap, Bottom line is RD did not have the speed to run with RV. I would hope RD had the better avg he was in front and did win right??
I was surprised that Dungey got the holeshot with the 8th or 9th gate pick. He must have got the perfect launch or some riders who picked before him picked poorly. I'm not a JS hater, but he got a terrible start with the first pick.
@BillC
RV had a lap that was 0.028 faster than Dungey's. Do you know how many laps it would take for RV to make up 3 seconds at that pace? After about 100 laps, RV would have made up 2.8 seconds, so when you say RV had the fastest lap and RD did not have the speed you are splitting hairs on an almost quantum level.
@mxmofo1 I hear what you are saying, but you can't have it both ways. If you want to highlight the fact that RV was coming through the pack, you have to also engage the fact that Dungey had a comfortable lead early on. With 9 laps to go, Dungey was in cruise control mode, already lapping people, and RV was up to 5th place so by then the riders were spaced out enough that "coming through the pack" isn't a plausible enough reason to justify RV's speed as compared to Dungey's. Where it can be compared is at the beginning of the race where Dungey did have an open track and RV did not. Not surprisingly, for the first 15 laps, Dungey had more speed than RV so it's clearly a myth in the making that RV is so much faster than everyone else.
As an aside, I am wondering if the same people who are dogging on Dungey for having a clear track, are willing to adjust their claims to the previous week when RV had a clear track and the others had crashes? Likely not, and in my opinion that's why RV fans are quickly becoming the most annoying fans around.
DUNGEY WIPPED EM ALL FOR THIS RACE> say what you will...BTW-Who picked brett michaels, or whatever this gay looking, wanne be rock star's name is as our new speaker for our sport?? he kicks in a little cash and now i gotta listen to this fool?
The thing is guys I realy like RD, Great guy, Fast as He!! and all that. Bottom line to me is this, Even if RV and RD were the same speed RV would still be a better racer to me cuz of the way he can pass people and take care of bis.
@J_Sloan,,, you said "Where it can be compared is at the beginning of the race where Dungey did have an open track and RV did not."
You just made my point.... Lap 9 is almost half the race...
J_Sloan.. Again RV WAS IN TRAFIC!!! RD was out front with a clear track!! That is HUGE!!! RD could pick his line every lap RV was all over the place and STILL had the fastest lap. Can you really sit there and tell me you believe RV could not go any faster with a clear track??If so there is nothing else I can say to ya.
.Again I am not taking anything away from RD he got the job done and I am VERY happy for him and KTM all I am saying is everything fell into place for him.
J_Sloan I just finished read what you say and there is a BIG dif from RD win and RV's. Reed was in 2nd the wholes race till late and RD was in 3rd and RV left them. WHO was in 2nd behind RD?? not the same sorry.
MustardDog - I agree completely about Michaels. I hope he is kicking in a lot of cash for all the air time he gets. The lyrics were lame. Dusk to dawn? That line doesn't even make sense, unless it was vampires riding.
who cares who got the fastest lap times!!! Dungy won "Potto" took 3rd. both did well. a win is a win. both have a win and a 3rd this year, and are tied in points. Mega props to RD5 and KTM.
AMA Monster Energy Twilight Supercross Series hosted by Edward Cullen.
@BillC of course it's not the same to you, because RV didn't win in Phoenix. But if we are speaking in generalities here, then they are basically the same scenario: You have a rider who pulls a holeshot, gains a sizable lead and wins the race while the other riders have their issues. Here is the rub, however. If you are going to allow justifications for RV being out front and not speak in generalities, then you have to allow them for Dungey being out front.
On the one hand, you want to argue that RV got out front at A1 and no one else could catch him because they just were not able to, RV was just too fast and good for them. Then, on the other hand, you want to argue that while Dungey was out front he was only faster because he had a clear track. You allow the excuse of RV having to come through the pack, but you won't allow it for Reed, Stewart, or Dungey, and all three of them crashed at A1. That's an unbalanced take on the races so far.
@mxmofo1 Yes, RD had a clear track, and not surprisingly had faster laps for the for the first 15 laps. But if that's the excuse you are going to use, then I can reply that RD was out front cruising. Since he had a clear track, and since Weimer was not pushing him, why push it? The point here is that if you are going to give reasons why RV was slower than RD (the assumption being, that if RV had a clear track he would have gone faster than RD), I can give reasons that counter your claims that are equally as plausible to show that as far as speed goes, RD was just as fast as RV.
But what's the point? We could both give excuses all day and it doesn't do any good. When RV won at A1, I gave him credit for that win and said that he dominated the competition with a convincing win. I did not make any excuses for RV winning, like the other riders crashing. Yet, when Dungey wins, he hardly got any credit from the RV fans, just backhanded compliments and excuses.
J-Sloan where have you been, we need more people on here that are able to reason with others like this. I pretty much agree on everything you have said. There are too many double standards, these guys are all on a very high level and every win is earned no matter who it is. I really hope Phoenix was a huge confidence booster for Dungey, I feel like he has more in the tank for RV this year if he just gets a bit more aggressive. Based on the past year's results I still give RV the upper hand in the long run at this point based on his passing skills. I think in a few more races the two Ryan's are going to separate themselves on to a level above everyone else. Of course I'd like to see JS, Reed, Canard, Weimer etc run their pace and get in there but based on how things have went so far I say the two Ryan's are the smartest and best prepared for the long run. Never count out Reed either, but I just don't see him running there pace all season.
@ J_Sloan,, You are right,, RD has CLEARLY been faster than RV this year and half of last year,, hahahaha..
See, the difference is, I can PROVE that RV came through the pack.. You CAN'T prove that RD was "cruising" the 1st half of the race...
retardcross....
no way its gotta be team jacob....
great start to the year by the team pumpkin well done
@mxmofo1 What you can't prove is that because RV was coming through the pack, he was slowed down. You can give speculative reasons why he might have been going slower than if he had been out front, but if you are going to do that, then I CAN balance the scales and give speculative reasons why Dungey was not going full speed while he was out front, so you see, we are on equal footing here and you have not proved much since I already conceded that RV was pushing to get through the pack.
Also, I did not make the claim that Dungey has clearly been faster than RV, but I can make the point that Dungey was faster than RV at Phoenix. In fact, I can PROVE it. Remember, it's been the RV fans that have come in here to knock Dungey down by saying that he only won because RV crashed. I'm not a Dungey fan because he wins all the time or is always the fastest rider out there. I like Dungey as a person and as a rider, I like what he represents and how he represents himself and his team.
@Retardcross I agree with what you have said. I'd give the nod to RV at this point, but both Ryan's are clearly two of the best riders out there. Dungey proved in 2011 that he has what it takes to run with and beat RV, so hopefully they will both gives us some great racing for years to come.
hey if anyone has any pics of TONY alessis face after Dungey won the main please post them! LMFAO!!!!!!
alot of people on here that comment RD would not have won the race if RV would not have wrecked because RV was not that far behind dungey at the finish.
Dungey put the laps in that he needed to do to win the race.. Could he have gone faster? probably. but why, no one was catching him. Every corner you take in supercross you can tell were the guy behind you is at. If you are consistantly keeping 2nd place six seconds behind you, then why push yourself to go faster and possibly make a mistake? Dungey is the smartest racer out there hands down and is probably the championship favorite if you ask me.
again J_Sloan you miss the whole point, I said who was in 2nd that RD pulled away from?? JW!! RV left Reed and RD... see the dif?? also RV had the FASTEST lap at A1 wile out fron and also this week wile in trafic... SEE the dif?? also you say "You allow the excuse of RV having to come through the pack" where did I make any excuse for RV?? I did not need to like I said he had the fastest lap right?? Don't tell me you think RD did not push the first few laps till he new where everyone was and it was only JW behind him. I think you will see as the year goes on who the faster and better racer is. When RD run's down and passes RV like RV has done to him then you will have some proff.
. Now answer this one, Last year how many times did RD pass RV or JS?? Now how many times did RV and JS pass RD?? That helps prove my point on who the better racer is. RD only won 1 race last year and guess what....He hole shot it and RV and JS both had bad starts and then crashed. There fault sure somewhat but RV and JS have both come from outside the top 10 to win and I don't see RD doing that.
Now I read this. "Dungey proved in 2011 that he has what it takes to run with and beat RV" Ummm what?? RV smoked him in SX, Like I said above tell me one race where RD ran down and passed RV last year?? Crashes don't count. I will answer that for ya... There are NONE in SX.
Instead of speculating whether Dungey pushed the whole way or not, look at lap times. His laps went up very slightly in the 2nd half of the race but not until the last lap do you see a real "backoff". Dungey's 15th lap was a 52.880 while his 5th lap was a 52.669. His 17th lap was a 53.197.......hardly letting up and cruising. Reed pulled only 2 sub-53 second laps in traffic, while RV had 13 and Dungey had 11. Stewart also only had 2 sub 53 laps in traffic.
For the record, only 7 guys were lapped, and 3 of them were off the track when they were lapped. Wey, Hahn, and Albertson went down and out. RV passed 16 guys who were racing for position in setting those fast laps.
Luckily Dungey is smart enough to realize this and not get ahead of himself like so many Dungey (KTM?) fans are. Remarkable that anyone can compare RV A1 to Dungey Phoenix. At A1 you CAN see how much RV backed off after lap 9. Laps 1-9 all a 50/50 mix of 1:00's and 1:01's. Laps 10-20 mostly 1:03's and 1:04's, with a 1:05 and 1:06 for the last 2.
BillC you would argue if they didn't use a new rope to hang you with!
B-KR I don't think the KTM fans are watching the same races as us. What about MEC? Dungey has one quality that is priceless, he never gets hurt!!!!! I don't think he has ever been hurt since turning pro. For RD to always to be fast enough to be on the podium since turning pro and not getting hurt means that he is riding that fast and doiing it safely. That is a quality that makes RD very special. Reedy is almost the same way. If I was a team owner that would be important to me.
Dungey is way under-rated- I hope he keeps it going and gets all the respect that he deserves. Before that crash stewart looked fast- but not after. It took him a LONG time to get that bike out of the sand. He was 15 feet behind short leading up to the sand wall, then he ends up hitting him. It looked like short just stopped at the top for some reason.
And those whoops were gnarly looking, stewarts yammie was all over the place. Great to see Wiemer and K-dub at the front for the whole race. Reed didn't look like he was on it this time. And some of the best LCQ action ever! Football at Hooters then great racing at the bob. A great day in phoenix.
Does the fastest lap mean anything when you bolo the start, get caught in traffic and make mistakes? I agree RV put down some great laps to get through the pack, but he had to. RD on the other hand got the holeshot and won, hands down. His average times were almost all faster than RV and that's what matters. If it was a one lap race I would say that RV took this one no questions asked, but he wasn't there and he didn't win. Who cares if he came through traffic, this isn't surprising, he's arguably the fastest man in MX and SX, but he wasn't at Phoenix otherwise he would have been two steps higher on the podium.
BillC, I think we all see why you have the views you do. Villopoto and Dungey have different styles of racing as Villopoto is more aggressive and Dungey conservative. I wish you would stop being so intolerant of opposing views and comments. Arguing in the way you have for the last few years hasn't earned you my respect, but I do respect you as a fellow enthusiast. Lets just try to be a bit less fan-boyish.
@coolhand - It's official. BillC is getting as annoying as the Stewart fans. Yes, RV is amazingly fast. So is RD, and CR, and TC, and... Hell, all of these guys that qualify could smoke any of us in this thread.
J_Sloan - great posts. Will look forward to more in the future.
The point is that championships are about the entire series, and not a single race. If you can't have fun watching if "your guy" doesn't win, and feel compelled to argue every week that "your guy" is the fastest even though he didn't win, what is the point?
Just enjoy it. Bring on round 3.
The only way Villiopoto is going to win the championship is for someone to take Dungey out. That's how he won in 2011, Villopoto was lucky that Dungey had his mechanical failures. Dungey doesn't make mistakes like Villopoto does. Dungey rides smooth and fast. Villopoto is just fast, a little reckless and is going to make another mistake like he did on Saturday, no question about it. When it happens, where is Dungey going to be, he is going to be on the top of the Podium looking down.
@BillC I'm still not seeing your point as it is not relevant in regard to Dungey's performance based on who was in second place. You want to make a lot out of RV's win at A1 (which was, by all means, a dominate performance in which RV set the tone for the season) because he pulled a gap on second place Reed, and diminish Dungey's win at Phoenix because he pulled a gap on second place rider, Jake Weimer, but that's not be balanced in your analysis of the two races. The fact is, Dungey also pulled a gap on Reed at Phoenix. Why is it that if RV pulls a gap on Reed, it's a point of RV's superior riding abilities, but if Dungey pulls a gap on Reed it's because Reed was back a few positions?
To answer your question, I don't recall any times last season where Dungey caught and passed RV or Stewart. But that doesn't mean that Dungey is less of a rider. Obviously, RV and Stewart are more willing to hang it out. Dungey is a smoother and more calculated rider. It worked better for Dungey than it did for Stewart last season, and it worked better for RV than it did for Dungey in 2011.
I could give lots of reasons why Dungey is just as good a rider as RV, but what's the point? I'm arguing with someone who claims RV rode faster than Dungey because he had a faster lap by 0.028 seconds, and who said that average laptimes don't matter. I don't know what to say to that because it's going well beyond being reasonable, and in regard to RV being a superior rider to the rest of the riders you are incorrigible. And that's fine, you like RV and I don't fault you for that but I do fault you for being too unbalanced and unfair, and for taking away from other riders and their accomplishments to build your own favorite rider up. I would never tear RV down to build Dungey up because I am confident in Dungey's abilities and accomplishments. He's a great rider with a bright future, and in my opinion he has more titles in his future. So does RV.
@B-KR I'm not sure how the laptimes from two different races are relevant to my points. At A1, Reed, Dungey, and Stewart all crashed and had some other issues. That would certainly explain why RV was able to make such a huge gap on the field and then back it off in the later stages. That, and RV was just flat out flying. Phoenix was a different beast all together, with different track conditions, shorter laptimes, etc. So while Dungey may not have slowed down as much throughout the race, it doesn't follow that he was not in cruise mode early on. Without the major players up front, he had no need to push.
Main events are stupid. They totally ignore the guy who won practice.
Wow, i used to get so much crap for defending JS till the end, but i think BILLC has far surpassed me in that dep't with RV....GEEZ!!! Dungey was the BETTER RIDER IN PHOENIX....argue it all you want and go IF IF IF IF all you want. This is cracking me up, this sounds just like the stuff all the (dare i say it) "stewtards" were using last year when James didn't win (which was quite a bit)....exactly the same...i even heard one guy above say Dungey's win wasn't "straight up"....unbelievable!! Well, if the ONLY reason Dungey won was because RV crashed, then i hope RV crashes a whole lot more this year!! Otherwise it seems from all the wisdom on here, that nobody else stands a snowballs chance in hell of beaten the almighty!! Hahaha
I didn't hear anyone say RV was given a gift last week, when he nailed the start and went coast to coast.
Prediction: By Vegas, RD and RV will be 1st and 2nd in points. Reed and Stewart will consume each other. Repeat of last year.
Bill C must be a Raiders fan! Always an excuse or a skewed sense of reason!
I see that J_Sloan has continued to thrashed them soundly with the humble truth, well done sir.
Congratulations to Ryan
But especially to the entire KTM organization.
For making the investment in America.
For expanding our choices as riders.
For choosing to be represented by such a fine athlete.
For choosing a worthy competitor.
And for competing.
Thank You.
I too can see RV running down RD and passing him. I can also see him yard sale-ing and hurting himself just like he has 3x before. The same can't be said for RD he has never been hurt and his consistency and patience is what is going to win him this championship. He would have had both last year if not for bike problems out of his control.
RD5 won, congrats to all the guys at KTM for a great team effort and the first ever AMA supercross win. I have to agree with J_Sloan, RV's lap times were nowhere near fast enough for him to catch RD.
I didn't get to watch the race, but I was watching the live timing. With 5 laps to go and the use of my trusty calculator, I knew if RV blitzed as hard as he could he could end up on the podium, which he did. Great ride by both Ryan's.
Racing is like poker, luck plays a huge part. Looks like luck was on RD's side at PHX. I also agree that RV was faster than RD, but RD played it smart and rode his own race and took the checkered flag first. All the bench racing and smack talking in the world will not change that statistic.
Lets just Hope RV doesn't have to keep riding that ragged edge he rode in PHX to keep the points race close this season. The razors edge has ended plenty of riders seasons and careers, and has already hurt RV once, just as it has done to JS.
Looks like 2012 will be a great year for supercross. J_Sloan made very educated and documented points about the lap times. The guys ragging on him and just busy praying that RD doesn't beat their boy this year.
zinger and Gills get real, Bad start??? Mistake?? a top 5 start is NOT bad and Milsaps falling in front of you on the first lap is NOT a mistake... man do some of you even ride let alone race?? Also I find it funny how I get singled out when many say the same thing I do.
J_Sloan./.......
J_Sloan.... Reed was NOT in 2nd place when DR was in front. OK at A1 RV in Front, Reed in 2nd, RD in 3rd (almost 50 SX wins and 3 titles there) and RV left them. NOW last weekend RD in Front JW in 2nd ( ONLY his 2nd SX on a 450 EVER) so how you can say thats the same I don't know. Also you keep saying that Reed, RD and JS all fell at A1 but RV was over 12sec ahead of them before any of them fell, BUT last weekend RV got taken down by Milsaps on the first lap and Reed and JS were both outside the top 10 again I don't see your point.
JDUB46 I don't care for ball and stick sports.
One more thing J_SLONE... You say this "To answer your question, I don't recall any times last season where Dungey caught and passed RV or Stewart. But that doesn't mean that Dungey is less of a rider"
. So if one guy can run down and pass another guy but that guy never runs down and passes him YOU consider that equal!! Now I really don't get you.
. Also its not about my fav rider Its who I think is the best. Back when I was a liitle kid My fav rider was Jeff Ward but one year he won the 250 outdoor title over RJ. RJ smoked Wardy untill he got hurt and then Ward won the title.. Sure I was happy "my guy" won the title but even at that young age I new RJ was the better rider that year and Ward won cuz he got hurt. Some of you look at it Dif who ever wins the title no matter how is the Best, I look at who is the Best Rider not how it ends. Lets face it if RD, RV, JS, CR and TC all get hurt this week who will win the title?? If Short or Metty win it or someone else would you say there the BEST?? I would not cuz them guys can't beat any of the 5 I listed. I like RD a lot I have said it a 100x's but I just feel RV is the Top dog right now.
I always thought it was just a Stewart thing, but apparently it is human nature. I don't begrudge Dungey any respect as I defended him vehemently when he won his titles and others said so and so wasn't there. He won this race fair and square and deserved the win. He didn't get "lucky". The only issue I'm having is people are blowing it way out of proportion and saying RV had the same type of race in his A1 win. Bottom line is that there are 15 more races and I promise not to go off the deep end when it becomes apparent even to J Sloan and whoever else here that RV is a step ahead. When Dungey won his titles there were a whole bunch of people saying he would not have won IF ONLY..... Dungey fans you have fallen into the same exact trap in saying he would have won both titles last year IF ONLY. IF he hadn't derailed a chain, IF he did not run out of gas. Can't have it both ways. RV had a bunch of IFs last year too. There are no IF Only's in sports, because everything pivots on those IF Only's. I want to root for Dungey and KTM and you rabid Dungey guys are making it impossible to do.
J Sloan: Apparently you did not watch A1 closely enough as RV was 18 seconds ahead of Dungey BEFORE he fell over. RV was 13 seconds ahead of Reed when HE fell over. If RV had not backed down for the last 10 laps he could have won by 30 seconds over 2nd, which wasn't Dungey. The bolstering of Dungey's rides is bordering on those Stewfans that are still saying that he is going to win this title, without a doubt. So as I said, 15 more races. Downplay the ridiculous ride RV put in, and hang your hat on them having similar lap times when one guy has the holey and the other is in 10th.
B-KR.....your right it is obnoxious how fans have to berate other riders. What all started this is when somwone says so and so done good BUT he got a good start, everyone fell down, bla bla bla. As soon as you use the word BUT everything you said before that is a lie.
Why can't we just say good job and leave it at that. If not then we aren't fans at all are we? I think this one was special because RD and KTM made history. He won be happy for them FANS.
WOW B-KR and I on the same page this is history just like RD's win on the KTM!!! LOL.
.Coolhand this site is for talking about what happen not to just say good job... That would be a bore. I take heat for what I have said but I did not start it. I said great job and that was it others started the comparing but when I give my opion thats all of the suden bad. I think its fun to arue your side. The bottome line is like I said above people look at it in Dif ways neither is right its just how you look at what the "best" is to u you. But I don't get how Sloan can say RD never passed RV but that does not mean RV is better... that blows my mind!!
Great for Dungey.....But he will never beat Villopoto or Stewart straight up. Dungey is like Reed when Carmichael was still racing. If the main players are not out front hes the next fastest guy. In his case he is the slowest of the fast guys. (Stewart,Villopoto,Reed,Carnard). He knows this!!!!!!!!!
Yes this means Dungey will only win if something happens to the fast guys.
Congrats To RD and the whole KTM crew! Glad too see the Dungey/DeCoster/Harrison pairing reap some success. As much as I am a non-KTM fan (I race off-road in a sea of pumpkins) it surprises me how many comments I've read concerning the lack of credibility some hold in the KTM's ability to win a SX race in the big boy class. These folks must not follow the Grand Prix mx scene.
The burning question on my mind is what was KTM's previous best finish in the premier class???
Didnt they get a podium in the 90's with Mike Fisher or that guy from Oklahoma(?) that used to ride for em back when nobody wanted to ride a white and teal bike?
There best till now was a 4th
@BillC As mentioned, it is not relevant to Dungey's performance who was in second since Dungey pulled from Reed as well. You want to make the point that RV pulled from Reed because he was in second place in order to bolster RV's A1 performance, but Dungey pulled from Reed at Phoenix. Dungey also pulled from Stewart at Phoenix, and because Dungey's first 15 laps at Phoenix were faster than RV's first 15 laps at Phoenix, guess who else Dungey pulled away from at Phoenix? That's right, Dungey pulled away from RV during the first 15 laps of Phoenix.
And yes, I can say with confidence and plausibility that Dungey is just as good as RV. But as previously mentioned, it would be a waste of time to discuss that with someone who is arguing over 0.028 of a second and then saying that average laptimes don't matter. RV may very well have the fast lap, but there are 20 laps so the bottom line is that Dungey went faster around Phoenix than RV did. I think that's probably too bitter a pill for you to swallow so you changed gears and instead of arguing that route you instead want to argue who can come from behind and pass who. Your criteria for who is a better rider is unbalanced and only takes speed into consideration. Well, RV's speed got him zilch in 2009 and 2010 so obviously speed is not the only factor that goes into the making of great riders.
@BK-R You may want to watch the race again; Dungey was about 13 seconds behind RV when he fell over, not 18. According to this lap chart:
http://results.amasupercross.com/data/2012/01/sxm1lap.pdf
Stewart passed Dungey on lap 9. According to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9PafE2DI20
Dungey was about 13 seconds back when he fell over and Stewart passed him. A look at the laptimes reveals that on lap 9, Dungey's laptime went from 1:01 to 1:11. I'm starting to see why RV fans are so hyped on him; it's because you are literally making numbers up. It's probably just an honest mistake on your part, but at any rate, Dungey was not 18 seconds behind RV when he fell.
Also, I fail to see how I am being a "rabid" Dungey fan when all I am doing is pointing out the obvious errors that you and BillC are engaging in. The above is a perfect example, where you mistakenly claimed that RV was 18 seconds ahead of Dungey when he was in fact only about 13 seconds ahead of Dungey when Dungey crashed.
I also fail to see the relevance of your comparison of time differentiations between the riders at A1 and Phoenix. Maybe you could flesh your point out some more, but it seems intuitively obvious to me that different tracks, with different rhythm sections, and different laptimes are going to produce different time differentiations between riders. At one track, given the conditions of that track it is quite possible for one rider to holeshot and pull a bigger gap on the second place guy. Perhaps on a smaller track with rhythm sections that more riders can jump and clear, etc. etc. the rider are all going to stay closer together. I see it at a lot of different tracks, so I'm not being implausible here. It's a mistake for you and BillC to transfer RV's bigger lead at A1 to Dungey's smaller lead at Phoenix since they are different tracks, with different laptimes, and different conditions. Instead of taking that into consideration, you are transferring a specific (RV won big at A1) to a generalization (RV is faster that's why Dungey didn't win by as much) and then drawing conclusions which is a mistake. In other words, you are not only willing to concede certain conditions for RV that you won't for Dungey, you are going one step further and drawing false conclusions based on erroneous comparisons of tracks and laptimes.
LMFAO!!!!! You are quite full of yourself there J_sloan... IF Reed was in 2nd and RD was pulling away you would have a point but when he is buried in the pack it hold no water IMO. Like I said when you have two Champs running 2-3 with almost 50 wins between them and you pull away it is WAY more impressive to me than RD pulling away from JW. I know there all on the same track but when RV is in 18th, JS is in the teens and Reed is in what 7th it realy is not the same. if it is to you so be it. But I still laugh that you think there equal when RD can't run down and Pass RV That I just don't get.
."Your criteria for who is a better rider is unbalanced and only takes speed into consideration" No I don't. I take passing, fitness and many other things. so you think speed means getting hurt?? thats what it sounds like> That is laughable at best. If you ride you will get hurt at some point.. I would be willing to bet RD has been hurt too. Sometimes "LUCK" plays a big part in it too. I have seen lots of guys take some wicked crashes and not get hurt and others a simple crash and break something. RD has riddin away from a few good ones unhurt but could have been just as easy so I really don't know where you where trying to go with that one either.
@BillC You're being hypocritical with your standards here. With RV, other riders can be buried in the pack and when RV pulls away it's because he's faster and superior to the other riders. When Dungey pulls away it's because the other riders are buried in the pack and thus have to go slower because they don't have a clear track ahead of them. You also fail to consider these things:
1) A1 and Phoenix are different tracks with entirely different conditions.
2) The riders used different bike set-ups at A1 than they did at Phoenix.
There are many relevant factors that go into each race, thus at one race, a rider can pull a holeshot and check out. At another race, a rider can pull a holeshot and all the riders will be boxed in with each other for the majority of the race. Instead of considering these factors and calculating them into your equations, you're just making sweeping generalizations that RV pulled a bigger lead at A1 because he is faster and Dungey didn't pull a bigger lead because Reed, Stewart, and RV had problems. So it appears that you allot RV allowances and balance the checkbook with his speed, yet you don't allot Dungey the same allowances and penalize him for things that are not his fault, i.e. other riders having problems.
It's much like I said earlier, in generalities, A1 and Phoenix are the same: A rider holeshot and pulled a comfortable lead and the other riders had issues. However, you want to pull specifics out of that (like Reed was in second at A1 and further back in the pack at Phoenix) to use against Dungey without considering the relevant specifics against RV (like the fact that the tracks were different and bike set-up differences). How is that fair?
As for your claim about riders running down other riders. Well, a lot more goes into a racer than just that. I agree that Dungey lacks some aggression in that area, but let's fall back on this mantra: A rider is only as good as his last race.
If that's the case, then your boy RV failed to run down not only Dungey, but the rider who you are implying is of a lesser quality than Reed and therefore saying that Dungey's win wasn't as impressive as RV's: Weimer. You can't reply that if he had more laps he would have caught Weimer and Dungey because that's just getting into the land of what-ifs. The fact is, there are 20 laps so if a rider is only as good as their last race, then Dungey got the best of RV in both a faster overall time (thus, he rode the track faster than RV) and podium spot. I'll leave it there and bow out of this thread since I have said what I want to say. You may have the last word, BillC.
@ J_Sloan,, No,, a rider is only as good as the last championships to be won and that would be RV.. Won EVERYTHING last year. I think its safe to say that the best rider wins the championships, not races or heat races...
""@mxmofo1 What you can't prove is that because RV was coming through the pack, he was slowed down"".
I just think its extrememy ignorant on your part to think a rider can go as fast as he is able to when coming through traffic.. What brand are you smoking ??
I will thank you. I am not being hypocritica, Yes there were other riders buried in the pack at A1 but other than JS NONE of them have ever won a Title and only a few have even won a race so I don't see how you can even begain to compare having Reed behind ya or JW in his 2nd ever 450 SX but From what you just said you feel JW is as good as Reed so I guess there is really nothing more to say.
Great points Mxmofo1 and I tried to make the same ones, like beating your head aganst a wall I guess LOL he thinks nothing of what RV did. I would love to know his background in racing. he must have been or is unreal.
I guess ultimately, in order for Dungey to get any kind of respect from RV fans he's going to have to crash in his heat, come back and win it, then get a bad start in the main and pass all the riders for a main event win. Heaven forbid Dungey should actually pull a holeshot, lead the race from wire to wire and win with a comfortable lead.
My pick to win the title is RV because at the moment he's firing on all cylinders while the other riders are either having issues or are on new teams/bikes. Right now, RV is the complete package. But as my favorite rider, I have no doubt that Dungey will improve and be in there toward the end of the season if not sooner, and more so, the outdoors and next season both SX and outdoors as they get the bike more and more dialed and refined. Like I said, both Rv and Dungey have more titles in their futures.
@mxmofo1 You said, "I just think its extrememy ignorant on your part to think a rider can go as fast as he is able to when coming through traffic.. What brand are you smoking ??"
I know this because I have seen riders -- James Stewart for example -- pull their fastest laps while coming through the pack, and then when they are in the lead with a clear track, not have as fast lap times. It's pretty simple, really.
Just read what Jason Weigndt said.
.Villopoto may have won both titles last year, but he is dangerous on a whole different level so far this year. His Anaheim 1 ride was lethal. He won A1 in 2011, but you could have argued at that race that Stewart was the fastest rider that night, but just suffered a bad start. But last weekend, there was no doubt—RV was the man, pure and simple, and I think he could have won the race even if he had started pretty far back. And almost to prove that point, he logged an unbelievable come-from-behind ride at Phoenix. He slashed through the field to go from last to third, and he ate up Reed in the process. He may have caught Stewart, too, but we’ll never know since Stewart went down. Still, RV’s third was just as impressive as his win at Anaheim, and I think he’s another notch better than he was in 2011, and oh by the way, he won the championship that year.
. But still J_SLOAN is not impressed!!
@ J_Sloan,, You said "My pick to win the title is RV because at the moment he's firing on all cylinders while the other riders are either having issues or are on new teams/bikes."
I think the " at the moment " statement should be more like " the last year."
I am a RD Fan more than a RV Fan, but facts are facts....
J_Sloan ,, How come riders want a "clear" track when they go for a fast lap time ?? I sure as the hell have NEVER hearda rider say, "Get all the guys on the track so I can put in my fast lap." hahahaha,, seriously, what brand do you smoke ??
"Get all the guys on the track so I can put in my fast lap."
.Now thats a good one!!!
@mxmofo1 There is no doubt that racers prefer a clear track ahead of them. It is an advantage and can often help the rider have faster laps. I did not deny that, my point here is that, that is not always the case since many times riders put in their fastest lap coming through the pack. Remember, the world is not black and white so don't take what I say and then conclude with a either/or conclusion.
J Sloan, glad you caught my mistake. It was 13 seconds when Dungey fell at A1. Point is, it was a lot BEFORE falling. Anyway, I think everyone you are asking to respect Dungey already does. The problem is you are trying to make a case that Dungey is every bit as fast as RV based on what we have seen so far and others are disagreeing. The idea that you want to claim that riders put in better laps mired in the pack is just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And the only reason you say that is because it makes a case for Dungey running RV's lap times. If you were at all objective you would admit that RV's laps would have been better with a clear track. One thing I will admit is that RV benefitted from a clear track at A1. Look at Phoenix though, 10 seconds behind Reed at one point (also in traffic) and 14 seconds ahead of him at the end......with no Reed fall. Look at Reed's times at Phoenix and realize that is probably what Dungey's times would have looked like had he gotten a 7th place start.
@B-KR I can make the case that Dungey was every bit as fast as RV at Phoenix because he was every bit as fast as RV was. What I did not say was that "riders put in better laps mired in the pack" as a general rule of some type. Rather, I said that, at times, riders can and do put in their fast lap while not in the lead. Stewart is a perfect example of this; he has often had his fastest lap while working his way toward the front and when he finally got in the lead, had laps slower than when he was moving forward. I'm also willing to bet that you could look at someone like Alessi's laptimes and see that his fastest laps, at least at times, are after he has been passed and after pulling the holeshot. The point here is simple: While rider prefer an open track and often do put in their faster laps with an open track, let's not make more of it that what it is. And let's not fool ourselves here, by about the fifth lap or so, riders are pretty well sorted out from the slower riders and the faster rider usually still have their pick of the lines.
My reasoning here has not been to bolster Dungey, it has been in *response* to the claims of those saying that RV was faster than Dungey at Phoenix and to those trying to justify RV's pace by claiming he was coming through the pack. Claims such as, "Look at Reed's times at Phoenix and realize that is probably what Dungey's times would have looked like had he gotten a 7th place start." If you want to do that, fine. But there are valid arguments to counter those kinds of claims: That Dungey wasn't pushing as hard because he had an open track, that RV was pushing even harder to make his way up front, etc. etc. You can't allow your assumptions for RV at the exclusion of granting others their assumptions in this debate.
J_SLOAN you say "But there are valid arguments to counter those kinds of claims" ... Not really. RD has showed time and time again he can't pass people so I would love to hear some valid arguments of how he would have been just as fast in the pack.
BillC, yeah we did make history and agree for the first time, just like KTM! haha It really is no use J SLoan. If you believe Dungey was just cruising fine, and if you believe RV's laps would have been no better with a clear track fine. That's why I said there are 15 races more to show you what the truth is. Dungey won the race and their is no argument that he won fair and square that night. Just like if Dungey slid out on lap 15 and Weimer won, he would have been best that night. None of us would post here though that Weimer is every bit Dungey or RV's equal because of the result. Not me, not you, not BillC. Because that would not be the truth. In every other instance where a guy came through the pack like that, everyone marvelled at what a ride it was and everyone agreed who the fastest guy on the track was. Whether it was Hannah, RJ, MC, RC, or even Stewart. Anyway, I have no idea why anyone would dislike RV or why they would dislike Dungey, but for some reason a bunch of people have their opinions clouded by who they dislike. Because some of us are calling it like it is, we are labelled as disliking Dungey. Funny, people here used to tell me to stop hanging off Dungey's nuts when I was telling it like it is about him in 2010, BillC being one of them! haha
@B-KR Why should the riders bothering showing up at the remaining 15 races when they could instead come and learn the "truth" from you?
As RC has always said, you create your own luck. RD5 did just that, great start great finish. Luck will always be involved to so instants, weather it be bad or good.
JS7 is consistently the fastest guy on the track (last year) and look at his finishes.
RV2 Is on fire right now, and probably COULD have won if he could of got a good start, but he did'nt, RD5 beat him strait up, is RV faster, probably, RD5 has always been a puss when it comes to passing people, he is a lets follow and see what happens type of guy. RV and JS will own Dungey when it comes to traffic, hell CR22 does a better job at passing then Dungey does.
The fact is, you give RD5 an open race track and he is just as fast as the rest of the field.....
One thing you have to give RD5 is that he will consistently be there every weekend, and be fast. And for some reason this guy doesn't get hurt. I was steroid testing done, the guy is a stud!!