#1...250 B Stock

ZACHARY

BELL

01:52.791


B class on a 250f no less!!

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WOW...

ZACH BELL KILLING IT ON THE 250F IN B CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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the fastest laps always come from 250s. lorettas sucks on a 450

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They must get hot having to wear that bib. But not at 50mph I guess.

How about the 100 fastest Lorettas Laps of all time?!

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Class of 2012 is where the talent is at. Will make for good racing in the amateurs next year.

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This just shows the monstrocity that is the B class nation wide. Used to be the C class where you found this many sandbaggers. Not taking anything away from these fine gentlemen, but PLEASE.

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I have seen this for many years where a so called B rider sets the fastest lap times or is in the top 5. To me this clearly indicates that the rider had no business being in the B class and somewhere along the line there needs to be some new rules in determining what class someone should be in.

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2fast & Mark, you hit the nail on the head! The B class is a joke. And we can blame all the tracks for letting it happen. Here in Michigan, there's hardly ever enough guys to have an "A" class. Yet there will be 25 "B" riders and 8 of them will have faster lap times than the "A" guys that are there. It's easy to see too because we run the classes together and everyone can watch the sandbagger "B" guys killing the "A" class guys.

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What if the rider is straight off minibikes, or just his second year in B class and is just 15 years old? Nothing wrong with faster B class riders, especially when its a group of kids like this is.

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250B stock murdered this list

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I don't care how old you are. If you are a "B" rider and you can run with an "A" guy you are a sandbagger. And I mean a top "A" guy. Everyone knows who the top guys are at their tracks. And everyone knows who these kids are that should be in the "A" class but don't do anything about it.

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Back in the '70s, in some locations anyway, you got one race - your first race only - in the Beginner class, which was a very small class. Then you rode Novice. You had to earn your way to Intermediate. Then you had to earn your way to Expert. You didn't just put yourself in the Expert class any more than you just kept yourself in the Intermediates.

Sandbagging became a national plague with the growth of the NMA, although I'm fully in support of the NMA. People can ride in one class locally, and another class at the NMA or Loretta's.

Maybe they should divide everybody into thirds. The fastest 1/3 is the A class. The slowest 1/3 is the C class. The middle third is the B class. They could consider qualifier finishing positions from regionals, maybe give more points to fast lap qualifiers at the race to give everybody incentive to go their fastest and not sandbag, plus a way to move riders up who the officials deem to be sandbaggers.

Screw what class they WANT to ride. Put 'em where they belong.

When a Stock B rider beats everybody in all classes, in essence he robbed somebody of a win they deserved. Of course, EVERYBODY's guilty, so the rules need to be changed to eliminate this sandbagging CANCER in motocross.

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I can remember back in the late 80's when the C class was loaded with B riders at the regional qualifier. You get a fast 80cc rider moving up to the 125's and he can usually expect to win in the B class. Should be a B rider for more that that year tho. NESC you could freeze your championship points but that was only good for half the year. After that you were moving up. Instead of focusing on winning in every class these kids would be well served to move up earlier. If they don't get practice being around fast guys they set themselves up for failure. All of a sudden the first time in their life they can't win lining up for a National. Doug Henry didn't win the 125 amateur championship in NESC and he always pursued faster talent to better himself. Dowdy didn't sandbag it either. Moved up after winning 250 Am c'ship. That next A class spring series he finished in the top 10.

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I think it's the local tracks who should track lap times of their riders and move them up or down accordingly. Virtaully all local tracks now-a-days are going to electronic lap timing and scoring, therefor I don't see it as being too difficult to weed out the sandbaggers anymore, it's just a matter of posting new rules at tracks that allow them the rights to this process

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@ jairtime... Ya it was totally different back then in the 70's I was supposed to go in 74 I think it was but got injured cant remember where they had the race but one of my rivals Richard Van Hooser got 3rd in the 125 A class he was from ILL. His older brother was pretty fast also I think his name was Donald? Rich and I started being rivals when he was on a modified Kawasaki 100cc Bighorn.
Oh Jartime I forgot to ask you how you narowed the pwerband on that TM 400 only way I could do it was put a toggle swtch on the ignition????? LOL ?????

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I used to ask some of the sanbagging "B" guys why they aren't running the "A" class and the answer was aways the same....they were gettign ready for LL's. I always laughed and told them that was the wrong class to be racing there.

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Guys,

These times reflect smoother non rutted track conditions. If you have ever been to
LL's you would know it. Bogle, Hayes, and Peters would kill the B's. But I am
in agreement that B class does not have proper structure for movement to A class.
Ditto from C to B also. C class winners at LL's would be a top ten if not top five
runner in the B's. If a state is sending riders to Loretta's and don' t have a structure
for advancement of riders, then no questions asked. Send them as a A rider...

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@Larry Whitmer

Look at the results and go to the lap times. The 450A ran right before the 450B. Same exact track conditions. 450B had better lap times. Bogle, Hayes, Peters would NOT have killed the B's.

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I see all the comments about sandbaggers and can totally understand the anger in the injustice but, the flip side to the coin is as usual, money. What if you're a struggling family trying to keep three (or more) bikes running for junior to be the next big thing. Folks, things ain't getting any cheaper except the contracts being offered, if there are any to be had in the first place.

Making an effort to keep your pride & joy in the limelight, as well as getting the all important sponsorships, endorsments & factory recognition, whether it be in the form of parts, technical assistance or contingencies, is sometimes all that keeps a show on the road.
We all know there is a growing gap between the haves & the have nots and it would be a shame for a talented kid, maybe the next Dungey, Villopoto, Stewart or whomever, to lose the opportunity to being pushed ahead too fast for the sake of parity in the classes. Who's to say A-fast in Iowa is the same as A-fast in California anyway?

I probably shouldn't have even opened this can of worms but, there it is.
As for kids going from racing 85's to 250F's, I wonder which lawsuit will motivate the powers-that-be to reconsider this forward thinking??? We can't afford 125's but we can manage an occasional wrongful death lawsuit here and there? Sounds like the the script from the "Erin Brokovich goes racing" movie.

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Chris A getting in the top on a 125 two stroke! Twice!

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Carlsbad-as usual I like your input on this. I think for the last 3 or 4 years, the fastest riders from LL's were in the "B" class....Dungey, Barcia & Tomac. These kids have been groomed for their pro debut since they were noticed tearing it up on 80's. They went right to the pro's. The amount of kids out there that can do that and make money at racing motocross are slim. If you are a parent thinking little johnny is gonna be the next great thing because he finished top 10 at Lorettas.....think again.

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Lots of talk about sandbagging...hopefully, RacerX will see this as an opportunity to further explore this topic in an article. What always gets me is when you see a C class rider who races a 250 and 450! I can understand racing stock and mod on the same bike and just swapping some parts out between races, but I never knew any "novices" who owned two bikes.

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Sandbagging has been a problem ever since the first MX trophy was handed out. Let's face it: there will always be a problem with sandbaggers. Those of us who can't win a national amateur event (at any level) will simply get used to it and race for position way back in 17th while enjoying the competition. Those who are potential winners will have to get used to racing the fastest guys, regardless of shich class they ride in. Eventually it will serve those guys well to get their butts kicked by fast guys. It makes you faster!

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Wouldn't this be the product of the now defunct minimum 18yrs old pro rule... kids going from 80s into "b" class locally and racing there for 2 yrs on the 2 smoke (schoolboy) and 250f then one last year in "b" on the 250f only? Can you really blame the parents for playing by the designated rules?

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ALLDREDGE 01:54.828 on a 125 NICE!

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When I used to race BMX as a kid there was a system where you started out as a rookie and then when you raced a NBL sanctioned race, if you won you got a move up point. I think it was like 8 wins and you went to novice and so on. This to me seems like a solution to the problem.

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When I used to race BMX as a kid there was a system where you started out as a rookie and then when you raced a NBL sanctioned race, if you won you got a move up point. I think it was like 8 wins and you went to novice and so on. This to me seems like a solution to the problem.

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See,I told you.250B rider set the fastest time.OEM's always cherry pick the B classes with riders that should be in the A class.Cry about the vets that had a pro card 25 yrs ago.

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@Welker, sorry, I've never ridden a TM400, thank God, LOL. My mechanic crashed his brains out a few times in 4th and 5th gear on TM400s. I rode a factory RH125 just to try it out overseas once. It was set up all wrong. Tried a couple of other guys' 125s, 250s and 465 out. The only Suzuki I've ever owned is my Hayabusa...with motocross bars. Oh yeah. Gotta represent MX.

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A thought just came to me. How about the Sandbagger of the Year (SOTY) Award, presented by (Sponsor Name Here)? They would be flooded with nominees. If you made all the nominators and nominees "friend" your sponsoring company on Facebook, you'll have a marketing BOON!

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i guess we should move the lites riders up in the pros because they run faster lap times then the premier class. sorry wilson and bagget, your to fast for this class you are forced to move up even if you dont have what you may need.

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@ Wrong
Have you ever been to Loretta's? They groom a section of the track prior to each
moto. I wasn't down there that day, but I'm gonna say that they took out some
serioius switchback rutted areas. After I talk to some people this wk end while
working at Red Bud will know how much...but talking with a couple of mechanics
and scouts...A class front runners were the fastest riders. How about it Weege?

There is no good resolve for sandbagging other than make sure each state has the
same advancement system from C to B and B to A. I was a District Off Road President for over 10 years and this is the root problem. I can name off ten states
that have LL winners over the years
that does not have a structured advancement scale which makes it tough on states
that do.

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I talked to Jeremy Martins' dad yesterday. He told me that Jerma was riding with a bit of an injury throughout the weekend. Way to dig deep Jeremy. No titles this year but a moto win over Zach Bell and cole thompson while nursing an injury isn't bad. In fact, you should be proud of yourself. Very proud. Everyone will have thier ups and downs. What comes around goes around and your day is coming.

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The main root of the problemis that a lot of states are not all sanctioned, and use different, if any, advancement rules. Throw into the fact that these kids/parents know how important it is to be winning titles at these big amateur races, to be on the radar with scouts and rider support deals. For them its not like us, we all ride for the fun of the sport, for them its a business and serious investment to get their child as much support and recognition as possible, to try to get a future racing professional one day on a good team. They know its better, for example, to be top 3 in the B class than top 10 in the A class, and until they are forced to move up, they won't.

I'm not sure exactly how the rules are written, is it if you place in a certain position or higher (top 3 for example) the previous year at LL you have to ride the next class up? I do not believe it should be based on lap times though, becasue this is not like road racing where the track does not change. MX tracks change throughout the day and it would cause too much controversary and inconsistancy. Also, like mentioned previously, top 80 riders moving up are going to be setting some of the fastest times in the B class, and near the top near the A class. We have to be careful not to penalize riders who put in the work, have the talent, and bust their ass to try to win titles in their respective class, and send a fast 14 year old into the A class ranks prematurely.

Also, there are always going to be winners and losers in this sport, and fingers being pointed when their son doesn't win. Back in 97, my first year of racing. I raced the novice class here in FL my first year racing, did some long 20+ race series down here and won every series I entered. I went and raced the Budds Creek amatuer National and SX race (which was my first amatuer day national race ever) at the end of the summer, and totally obliterated the field. (One of the reasons was the fact that it was a total mud race, and I always did well in the mud) And even though it was my first ever race in the next class up, I heard a lot of comments that I should have ridden the A class. So basically to them I should have gone from Novice to A in 1 year of racing.

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Jairtime and Welker - you two should remember this. Back in the day (before Loretta's), sandbagging wasn't a problem. The Amateur Nationals were for A riders ONLY. You had to ride expert in your AMA district AND be in the top 10 in your class to be able to even register to ride the area qualifier. Had to finish top 13 in the area qualifier to progress to the regional qualifiers. I know we can't go back to that system because then it was for only 4 classes (100, 125, 250, & 500), but there was no such thing as sandbagging.

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@CR500 I raced the Amatuer Nationals in 70's and only one CC classes. But in
'79 the old Hangtown there were B Classes. Ditto with '80 at Millville had A/B
classes. And Red Bud held the final Am Natl's in '81 and there were almost C classes established.

Wit #27

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zach bell is such a sandbagger. theres no way they should have let him race B

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any one know lap times for the vets and "c" class

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Pax Track in florida used to do classes based on lap times.. If you had a super fast practice lap you couldnt race C class or B etc.

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