by Davey Coombs
The List: 10 Greatest Honda Riders
Thursday, June 23, 2011 | 1:50 PM
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An idea for this week's list came while perusing the Vital MX message board: When you think of Team Honda, which rider comes to mind? These are the men, in reverse order, DC considers the embodiment of what was once the New York Yankees of motocross.
With a nod to great Red Riders like Doug Henry (who would gain more fame on four-stroke Yamahas) and Danny "Magoo" Chandler (whose Maico days were of equal legend), these guys were more red than anyone else.
10.) David Thorpe: While American fans may not recall much of England's Grand Prix motocross royalty, Thorpe was the linchpin of a juggernaut in Europe that included, at times, Andre Malherbe, Eric Geboers, and Jeff Leisk. He won three 500cc world titles—back when those titles were hard to come by. At that the time, he was the King of Motocross in Europe.
9.) Steve Lamson: At one point Lammy had won more 125cc Nationals than anyone except Mark Barnett, and all but one came on Honda CR125s. But he rode in the shadow of Jeremy McGrath in AMA Supercross and never won a premier-class main event. Still, he made those two-smokers fly, and had Ricky Carmichael not come along in 1997, he might have broken all of the 125-class records.
Ricky Johnson was unstoppable from '86 to '89 for Honda.
8.) Kevin Windham: He started out green, turned blue, then red, and then yellow—and that was before he basically quit in 2002 with burnout. But then Windham came back with the help of Factory Connection, and he's become a true American Motocross hero. He's easily the most popular rider out there today, still going strong and still riding red.
7.) Rick Johnson: Ricky Johnson had his formative years on Yamahas—just like Ron Lechien and Bob Hannah, who would have some success on Hondas before moving on. From '86 to '89, RJ was almost unstoppable, as only Jeff Ward seemed to have his number on occasion. Johnson, like his '86 teammates Bailey and O'Mara, was as cool as cool can get in motocross.
6.) Jean-Michel Bayle: He won two world titles on Hondas, then moved to America and added three AMA titles. So good, so fast, so cool … and so French! American fans didn't know what to think of this incredibly talented but quiet interloper. Looking back, we were lucky he came here, and lucky Honda's brass was smart enough to let him trade it all in for a shot at AMA stardom.
5.) Jeremy McGrath: It's tough finding a spot for the King of Supercross here because he won four AMA Supercross titles and a 250 outdoor title on red, then left after a very public feud with the company over his image rights and freedom and whatnot. But then he won three more titles on Yamahas, plus a couple of races on Suzukis, and even took a brief ride with KTM before getting back to his red roots. In the nineties, McGrath WAS Honda. And he's still working with the company testing, doing public appearances, and representing the Red Riders.
The King of Supercross, MC also won an outdoor title as well for Honda.
4.) Johnny O'Mara: The O'Show rode red from 1980, when he was on a white Mugen, through 1986, when he stunned the world with his 125cc ride at the 1986 Motocross des Nations in Italy. Like the #1 man on our list, he was the quintessential Honda pilot of the glory days: perfect style, able to win on any sized bike, and just plain cool.
3.) Jeff Stanton: Captain America if there ever was one! From the time Team Honda took a chance of this Michigan big-bike rider in 1989 through his retirement five years later, Stanton rode red to six AMA Supercross and AMA Motocross titles. He led Team USA to three MXoN wins, twice saving the team literally on the last lap. He came to epitomize the more serious side of Team Honda as it evolved from super cool in the eighties to a more button-down, serious vibe in the nineties. He was all business, and he was damn good.
2.) Marty Smith: He was the first Team Honda hero, emerging as their 125cc champion in 1974 from a crowded group that included Chuck Bowers, Mickey Boone, Bruce McDougal, and more. Smitty won three titles and starred on the bikes as they went from silver to red. Dressed in red-white-and-blue, he was an all-American badass!
The GOAT for Honda, David Bailey.
1.) David Bailey: The best days of his too-short career all came on works Hondas, beginning with his replacement ride at the '82 Motocross des Nations and going through his career-ending crash at Lake Huron in California in January '87. Along the way he set the standard for style, charisma, and professionalism. He's still The Icon in our book—and maybe in everyone's book.
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I don't understand this list. Why is Jeremy McGrath and RJ down the list so far? Not to mention that they don't even have RC on the list?
Ricky Carmichael should be number 1 on this list and he didn't even make the top 10????? I don't understand.
Speaking of Hondas, James Stewart sure would look good on one. I think San Manuel needs a brand change!
Uhhh, excuse me? Where is Ricky Carmichael?
RC spent more years on both Kawasaki and Suzuki than he did at Honda! he was dominant on them for five championships, never losing once, but he bleeds green and still rides yellow well past his retirement....
DC
I understand the list to be what riders we think of most when it comes to Honda, but I agree, can't imagine not having RC. With all the turmoil over him going from Kawi to Honda, then ripping off the first undefeated outdoor season...gotta include him. When I think McGrath, I think Yammy... Can't say I disagree with the rest...Honda's switched rider so much in the last several years since RC, you really don't think of anyone recent that would represent them.
Honda would not put up with the JS7 Drama !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
carmichael? really? goat!?
Well even DC has an off day. No RC? McGrath and Johnson should be 1 and 2 in my humble opinion.
Yeah, I agree with the number one pick, but MC and the GOAT are #1 in the good ol' win column. I think that Davey was not considering RC as a true Red Rider since his stint was so short?
Correct me if I'm wrong but RC went undefeated in 2003 and 2004 in MX for Honda and RC is not on the list for one of Honda's greatest riders? '03 on a two stroke and '04 on a four stroke. How about win percentages for brands ridden for?
What about Donnie "Holeshot" Hansen?
81 MXDN Champ, 82' National Champ, 82' Supercross Champ,
And winner of 82' Swedish World Championships. The best race I ever saw was between Ricky Johnson and Hansen in there prime at Mammoth. Every single turn they swapped the lead with Hansen finally winning.
(and i've been riding and watching moto for over 38 years, since before the superbowl of motocross in 1976)
I think you guys aren't understanding what this list is for. Who seriously thinks of Honda when someone mentions RC? I think of either Kawi or Zook.
I would have put Lamson above KDub but other than that I think its solid.
DC,
Ha ha ha , great way rile up the crowd. I thught east coat bias was in basketball .
Bayle, OMara, and Stanton over RJ....................please
Bailey over Johnson............................................ let me think about it ....NO
No RC................................... oops
Hannah rode red too, remember him ?
1 RC
2 Johnson
3 Hannah
4 MC / Bailey
Dirt
KW is on there but no RC?? or even Mike Larocco? That's just crazy. What is happening.
Wow, I will take the off-day comment, but I really think of RC on a Suzuki first, and then a Kawasaki, and not Honda until third. it started out bad with the whole Vegas cape thing, and ended worse when Honda let him go on April 2, 2004 while he was hurt. Only to have his come back with another 24-0 summer as a farewell present.
Honda was the smallest part of RC's career, but it was his most dominant time.
Fire at will!
DC
MX Sports
RC two perfect seasons on honda. enough said.
I put 'em this way:
1. Marty Smith
2. RJ
3. Mac Daddy
Hell, I got laid in the first turn of a motocross track one night because she said I looked like Marty Smith. That's how much pull Marty Smith had as a Honda rider. When other guys get laid because of Marty Smith, you KNOW he was rollin' hard.
Davey, Thanks for including Marty Smith on the list! Yes, I'm an "old timer", and I grew up during Marty's reign of terror over the 125 class, and got to see him ride the RC Open Class bike at Lake Whitney at an outdoor national. Not only could Marty make going very, very fast on those older motorcycles look effortless, he was (and still is) the perfect example of a class act and one of the best ambassadors for the sport that we could ever ask for. At one of the Texas outdoor nationals in the late 70's, I can remember most of the pits being already cleared out, and there was Marty, sitting on the bumper of his Honda box van, signing autographs with a smile on his face, posing for photos, and visiting and laughing with everyone there, until every last person had been taken care of. He also has two of the nicest parents I've ever met in my life. His continued devotion to the sport today, speaks for itself. Great list Davey!
Last time RC was on DMXS he barely mentioned Honda in his career. He also didn't have a CR hanging on his wall in his house like the KX and RM.
I think RacerX is spot on here. Honda was a footnote in his epic career and seemed they parted ways badly.
Correct myself
2002 250 mx undefeated 24-0 two stk....
2004 mx undefeated 24-0 4 stk all on Honda.
2003 MX he went 8 overalls out of 11. Of those 22 motos he finished second 7times WHICH WAS HIS WORST FINISH! So in 3 years he had 63 out of 70 1st place rides and 7 out of 70 2nd place rides. 3 straight Honda chanpionshps.
Yea he should be left of the list...ok.
Ok, I don't deny the coolness of David Bailey but I think you've let your personal biases take over on this one, Davey. Too Hip has to be top 3, along with McGrath and Stanton. Not that I really disagree with the list, you've just not sorted them right.
It doesn't matter what color you bleed or whats on the wall. This is the top ten Honda riders.
I don't care what your excuse is DC, leaving RC out is a epic FAIL........24-0
Bailey is like the Jerry West of MX. His image should be on the AMA logo!
I think of Factory Connection with KDUB - not Factory Honda. That is what this list is, right? Team Honda - Factory Honda riders. He didn't ride Factory Honda very long, did he? If some was to ask me what Factory Team KDUB rode for my first answer would be Team Yamaha.
Well... The Honda CR's probably owe a lot of credit to Gary Jones, so I think he should get an honorable mention!
gotta have RC on that list! what does the Honda all-time wins list look like?
DC
Ok ,ill admit Hannah at the back end of his career was a strectch and we can take RC of the list......................... I guess
Given that shouldnt the list read ?
1) RJ
2) Bailey / MC
I know your too busy to reply to posts but this debate needs to be put to rest. How does Bailey top Johnson ?
BTW ...As I told you at Pala thank you for your contributions to our sport
Dirt
what about RC and the perfect season
I disagree- RJ is easily top three and Carmichael needs to be in the mix
Who ever it was to suggest Stewart on a Honda. I have a better idea, put him on the KTM 350! Ha Ha Ha!
Woody Woodpecker #11
I am having a difficult time understanding this list. How can McGrath not be number 1. A very close second should be Rick Johnson. 5th and 7th respectively. Really!!!!!!! Who is selection is this????
Let me be clear. I totally repect what david bailey did in his career, and the injury he sustained. Although, I get really sick of everyone kissing up to him so much, just because he has this injury people think they should make him number 1 on things like this, etc.. Like I said, I have respect for bailey( i attended gary's riding schools several times as an amatuer), but he was not the greatest red rider of all time, nor was he in he top 3.
" DO NOT RIDE ON MOTHER F&*KING GRASS"....THIS WAS THE SIGN GARY BAILEY HAD IN HIS YARD AT ONE TIME WHEN U CAME TO HIS RIDING SCHOOL.
Really, RC didnt make the list.... Sorry Racer X, but this is a fail.
1) Jeremy McGrath
2) Ricky Carmichael
3) Rick Johnson
4) Jeff Stanton
5) David Bailey
6) Jean-Michel Bayle
7) Marty Smith
8) Kevin Windham
9) Steve Lamson
10) Doug Henry
I admit that windham is popular now but what has he done ? any major championships ? And Thorpe ? " The worlds fastest novice" ? Maybe a european best of but come on! Hannah and RC, those guys should be on this list and what about Karsmakers, or Pomeroy both guys achieved more than Windham.
I gotta agree with DC on this.
What has K-Dub done?
take JS7, RC4, CRtwotwo, RD5, MC1(2) out of the equasion and he's the GOATEPIITS! (greatest of all time ever possibly imagined in this sport)
Hannah started it all for Team Honda in the 80s. His signing with Team Honda was big.
No mention of Ezra lusk! His career was almost the same as KW but never stopped riding and now trains Milsaps. Great red rider in my book and always will be, that's why my first bike was a new 94 CR 80.........
Danny "Magoo" Chandler deserves it all- he won all 4 moto's for Honda, he was my cousin, I have "thank you" letter from Ray Blank- Honda racing Division, Ricky Carmicheal? Get a life!
I'd put Ashley Fiolek on there before KW.
Had to be a tough one, but thanks for the ranking. I loved my days at Honda and I loved the people and the bikes. It's part of what made my career something to be proud of. If you don't have a Honda ... well, you don't have a Honda!
db
I'm prepared to take some heat here....... I respect and like K-Dub but I'd replace him on the list with Micky Diamond. Micky won two championships and was a dominant force for sure.
David Bailey.....ALL AMERICAN BADASS!!!!
How do you not put RC on there and mcgrath and K-Dub should be at the top of the list. I mean the bikes were so different when most of these guys rode, who knows maybe if they could still ride today they might not even be able to make it to lorettas let alone be a top 10 honda PRO.
I would have put Marty Smith as #1. He came out of now where at 16 years old and proved you could ride smooth and win races.
David Bailey #2 and the rest look good.
During his career Pierre Karsmakers Pepe, developed the Honda and won the firts GP on it.
Don't forget the pioneers.
Peer, Holland
Just read all the complaints. I understand, trust me I was surprised to see myself at the top of that list too. However, who gave up 55,000 and signed with Honda for 12 grand. Who hung out at Honda and put away parts, worked on other bikes and swept the floor? Who put on their own AMA national and won it on a Honda with the event sponsored by Honda. Who else won the USGP at Unadilla on a 250 and the 500 at Carlsbad? Who was on 5 USA teams in a row starting in the second row and winning it each time? Who won the first ever Grand National title and ran the 1st ever blue and yellow plate? Who ran the table 16-0 until I had the 500 title wrapped? Did anyone else win a SX, 5 Des nations titles, two USGP'sk, two Bercy titles, Bologna undefeated and undefeated on the superbike? If you think about achievments, I suppose I belong up there in the hunt. That said, Marty Smith imo put Honda on the map! RJ came along after I won everything on a Honda and I beat him 1.2 the time he was there. He never rode a works Honda and he didn't win a 500 title I don't think. He was great, but he too was cut short with the wrist. Stanton was great, but not if you stack it up to others. Bayle was great, but he wasn't liked and went back to France. RC had a quick stink over there and imo opinion didn't really live and breathe Honda and he left for more money. Same for Jeremy. Did he win a 500 title, USGP's? or race and win in Japan several times in SX's and GP"s? Not trying to toot my horn or degrade in any way these other legends, just figured I'd toss out some perspective. Huge respect for RJ, MC, Stand on it Stanton etc, but when it comes to living and breathing HONDA, good luck finding somebody more loyal than I have been over the years...
DC
That list was great and I agree with it 100%........ You probably could have listed the "Top 20 HONDA Riders" and and would still be catching flack for not mentioning enough great riders on your list.
Look at DB get fired up!!!
Nobody has a list like that on a single brand. That's exactly where you should be, #1
why is rick johnson and stanton above thorpe and why isn't rc even on the list! RC should be N.O 1
and what about the greatest European of all time EVERTS!
It's difficult for some readers to understand DC's perspective as most who argue must have been in diapers during the 80's.
...one more thing about Bailey- he showed up (in his prime) at a little arenacross in Henrietta, Texas despite it not being in his contract. Why? Because he loved racing and was the baddest dude to ever ride the mighty HRC.
Looks like Bailey once again roosted everybody. Good points. It's hard to argue with what the smooth one said. DC has also seen a lot, and if everybody knew what he knows, they might totally agree with his list. It took guts to write that article. If each of us wrote their version of that article, certainly each version would receive flak.
Each rider contributes what he can in his own time. Marty Smith came along at a time when he could put Honda on the map and make starting lines all over America fill to the brim with new motocrossers. He was the perfect man for the job.
David Bailey came along when greats like Johnson, Ward and Glover were in their prime, and he left one hell of a stamp on the sport. I remember when he was riding at his dad's MX schools, and didn't think he would be able to measure up to what Gary did, but he sure proved all the doubters wrong, myself included - not to take anything away from Gary. I guess it's human nature to have doubts about a great rider's son, or a great rider's little brother.
Thanks to Bailey for clearing it up for everybody, I think all of the readers needed to read that list of contributions.
I have to agree with the many others that believe RC should be on this list. However short his stint with Team Honda any rider who goes 24-0 (and first in the record books to do so) surely has to rank as one of their (manufacturers) TOP riders. 24-0, not beaten, riding red... come on Mr Coombs.
10. David Thorpe (Mr CR500)
9. Johnny O'Mara (If it wasn't for his 4 MX Des Nation Titles, KW would be taking his place - can't argue results)
8. Marty Smith (Homage to the fore-fathers of MX, OG Honda Hero)
7. David Bailey (As Mr Coombs said, Iconic)
6. Steve Lamson (The CR125 specialist)
5. Jeff Stanton (Captain Red America)
4. Ricky Carmichael (24-0 baby! Unheard of domination)
3. Rick Johnson (Every kid wanted to ride HRC because the OG Bad Boy)
2. Jeremy McGrath (He's the King of SX and it started where, Red)
1. Jean-Michel Bayle (Back-to-Back 125, 250cc World Titles and the holly Trinity of AMA Titles in '91, can't beat it)
Love Kevin Windham (who doesn't) but thats an emotional vote for a rider who has ridden for all four Japanese brands and has yet to bring home a title for Honda - hey just say'n. Record books don't show 'fan favorites'
Wow, this is the best read in a while. I was disagreeing with DC's list until David put it in perspective. I do think RJ should be higher up the list along with MC.RC was the last honda rider to win a big bike championship for them.Besides Gary Jones, Marty Smith started it all for honda. David Thorpe kicked Bailey's ass more than once but we American's don't focus on that just the 86' win. Good stuff here.
After some further thought DB is right about himself. When I think of Honda I do think of him first. Not because of his career wins but because of something he said when he was announcing with Art Eckman. To paraphrase what David said "he stayed on Honda because it was usually the best bike and when you changed bike brands you took a step back and had to get used to the new bike. He thought it was a mistake a lot of riders made when they changed teams". David was loyal to Honda. He is number 1.
McGrath and Johnson are still 2 and 3 in my book though.
How can you think of Suzuki first when talking of RC? He only rode there in '05 and '06 and part time in 2007. Honda was the peak of his career, 2 perfect seasons, 5 of 5 championships won.
A weak argument could be made for keeping Windham on the list, but not at RC's expense.
Also, McGrath should definitely rank higher at minimum than Johnny O'Mara and Marty Smith.
Tell you what, ricky riding the cr250 two stroke will be burned in my memory forever. and the iconic orange gear used to fit the bike so well. That was one of the best looking works bikes of all time!
Well DC, you've done it again! Way to raise the hackles of the troops! I have to agree with you pretty much though, even the RC omission. As far as #1 goes, I agree w/ Icon on M. Smith being the embodiment of the brand especially when the sport was in the formative years and experiencing unchecked growth. Now, the #1 as posted, one David Bailey, I have NO problem with remaining atop the standings. However, I would have prefered to see him become known as the embodiment of any other brand than have happen what happened to end his Moto career, effectively "crystalizing" his Honda tenure. That said, about damn time somebody gave Jeff Stanton some respect! Ahead of RJ? EASILY! (RJ already had a title at Yamaha). Next time, top 20. You'll live longer.......or give the other brands their day in the sun.
24-0 on a Honda trumps EVERYTHING David Bailey wrote. "Live and Breathe" Honda? What? It is a different time old man, big companies do not have loyalty anymore, and you would be a fool to return the favor with loyalty. RC put honda back on top after a long hiatus.
This is by far the worst top 10 list of all time at racer x -
No RC but you have David Thorpe
Then you have O'mara and Stanton in front of McGrath and RJ.
No Bob Hannah or Everts ( in Europe).
No RC
No RC
I'm sorry, how many championships did RC bring Honda? OK
Mr Coombs, if you want to keep working here, stay of the drugs !!!
Mr. Coombs, if you want to keep working were, stay off the drugs !!!
@DC, that excuse doesnt hold water for omitting RC. He has more titles on Hondas than about every guy on this list. It doesnt say, "Who bleeds Red" None of these guys do. They went were the money was. Including Mcgrath. RC had a perfect season on Honda, none of these guys did, And he won Honda thier last tile with a 2-stroke, and thier first on the 450. And you leave him off the list because Honda lost faith in him because of a knee surgery. Not RC's fault. And Mcgrath should be either 1st or 2nd with RC. He has more titles on Hondas than these on the list also. Very disappointed..
@Carlsbad, do you think Bailey would have stayed with Honda if they done to him like they did to RC?? NO WAY. It shoed the company had no loyalty to RC, not the other way around.
K-Dub has NEVER brought Honda any titles, and he rode for 2 other brands also, just like RC did. But RC brought titles, and gets nothing from Racer X for this story, LAME!!
@David Bailey, I have mad respect for you as one of the top riders ever. But you asked if RC ever won a 500 title, they didnt have one when he raced, or I'm sure he would have.
@Mcgrath and RC were BOTH very disrespected by Honda, who lost faith in THEM, not the other way around.
Best results ever on Honda
AMA
1. Rick Johnson (6 first class titles)
2. Jeff Stanton (6 first class titles)
3. Jeremy McGrath (5 first class titles)
4. Ricky Carmichael (5 first class titles)
5. David Bailey (4 first class titles)
6. Jean-Michel Bayle (3 first class titles)
7. Donnie Hansen (2 first class titles)
8. Johnny O’Mara (1 first class title)
9. Ron Lechien
10. Bob Hannah, Kevin Windham , Micky Dymond, Mike Kiedrowski, Steve Lamson, George Holland, Doug Henry, Marty Smith, Chuck Sun, Darrel Shultz, Magoo Chandler , Donnie Schmitt, Ezra Lusk, , Sebastien Tortelli, Brian Swink, CHAD REED, …
GP
1. André Malherbe (3 500GP titles)
2. Dave Thorpe (3 500GP titles)
3. Eric Geboers (2 500GP titles, one 250GP)
4. Graham Noyce (1 500GP title)
5. Greg Albertyn (2 GP titles)
6. Stefan Everts (3 250GP titles)
7. Georges Jobé (3 500GP titles)
8. Jean-Michel Bayle (2 GP titles)
9. Brad Lackey
10. Trampas Parker, Josh Coppins, Frederic Bolley, Dave Stijbos, Gert Van Doorn, Pedro Tragter, Yves DeMaria, , Michael Pichon, Pit Bereir, Clement Dessale, Dirk Geukens, …
This article isnt called "The most LOYAL Honda riders" Its the 10 greatest Honda riders. To leave off a guy who had "2" perfect season (Nobody had one at that point) is just wrong. Not to mention his other titles.
If it wasnt for bad habits. Lechien would of been no. 1. He was the fastest. Dymond should of made the top ten.
DC i believe your article is titled... 10 greatest Honda riders...i didn't see ...10 longest Honda careers...or ... 10 best guys on a Honda who had shorter other rides...if this is about longevity then title it that way....RC was the BEST rider HONDA ever sponsored...hands down
Screw all that- Magoo in '82!
I would be more apt to agree with zundapp. A lot of research went into that list. And probably been around long enough to see or hear about their riding talent. Would be hard to mix the American U.S. Titles with the GP Titles. At one time the GP s housed the fastest in the world . Then U.S. riders stepped it up and left the GP s in the dust. Wish I could see the list riders (U.S. and G.P. ) race at the same time in their prime. That would be brutal. Not sure if Davey really thought this one out. Interesting idea though and a very interesting list. Big Windham fan but even Kevin was one that said he would have won a title or two if not for RC . And RC is not on the list. Like the old saying goes ,"the king is dead , long live the king"
Im trying to show some respect, but how the hell can you put Steve Lamson ahead of Dave Thorpe? There is no comparison to achievements in any way, Magoo, on his day no one was faster, Graham Noyce- He was the daddy on Honda's, JMB absolutely, I agree totally with Bailey, my opinion ;
1) Bailey
2) RC
3) RJ
4) Thorpe
5) Malherbe
6) Magoo
7) Stanton
8) Noyce
9) Geoboers
10) Lechien
Magoo on his day was the fastest rider in the world, his speed at the Trophee and Motocross Des Nations for one week was unmatched, thats why he is there ahead of world champions, he did so much that two weekends in Europe.
Bayle and Thorpe should have been left off of this list. This should be American riders only. Danny "Magoo" Chandler should have been on there for his incredible '82 season and Bob Hannah for his awesome '83 season. I know Hannah did not win any championships with Honda, but had he not broke his wrist half way through the season in '83, he would have won everything that Bailey won that year.
David Bailey...with all due respect....if this article is about loyalty then you win ... but again...its not titled that way... I define greatest as the very best at what you do....not the most loyal...dont get me wrong.... if you were lined up at the gate with RC ...both in your prime... that would be a battle that anyone on this board would pay triple to see...but the bottom line is...RC was the greatest of all time...and he rode for Honda
not research needed, all into my stupid brain :), but mx fan since 1981 after see Magoo Chandler riding (in real!), sorry for my bad English
Hi David Bailey- I once played racquetball against you in Troy,Mich., in 1982 or 1983. You beat me in the stepladder match, and went on to the final match, but lost it to Steve Martin. A pre-lude to the silverdome, amatuers vs the pro's in racquetball. I also played against Donnie Hansen. You may not remember me, but I remember you. I was wearing a yellow shirt, with blonde hair. This is as close as I can come to being famous, unfortunately.
I've got to chime in on the 'career to career' comparisons made above. I witnessed some of the RC domination over those two seasons. I also recall the battles from 82' to 87' in all of the premier classes.
The level of competition faced by RC pales next to the arsenal of racers from the 80's. Reed, Tortelli, Fonseca, Windham, Lewis, Voss, etc. don't compare favorably to the competition David Bailey faced.
Bailey's adversaries: Glover, RJ, Barnett, Ron Lechien, Johnny O, Wardy, Hannah, Magoo, Hansen. All of these boys wone titles (Magoo aside) and could win races on any given weekend.
RC raced against guys that rolled over, pulled over, gave up and waited until RC left the sport. Now that he has left, they are still underwhelming performers but pull down the big money.
RC has amazing skills, determination and guts. He would likely perform well even if the field were crowded with game competitors.
Bailey defined style, proffessionalism and brand identification all while battling with some of the best ever. Don't even flinch Mr. Coombs.
Glenn
Man, back when I was on a 73 XR-75 & 74 CR125 Elsinore.................my mom got mad cause I worshipped Marty Smith on Sundays too lol.
Any List that has the word "greatest" on it, should definitely include Carmichael on the list IMO.
Scott Summers probably could go in the top 10.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain the Jeff Stanton has more AMA national championships on a Honda (6) than any other former Honda rider. In addition to his carreer accomplishments he served as a team advisor for 10+ years after hanging up his boots and only stepped aside so that the race team could free up some money and keep others employed. You can count on the fact that you wont find Jeff riding a motocross bike of any other color. The same cannot be said for RJ, who hasn't stuck by Honda post retirement.
For you old timers out there chew on this: from 1978 to 1983 Steve Wise won some of everything all on Honda. "Everything" includes: 125 moto, 250 moto, 250 supercross, GP motocross, Superbike, dirt track, superbikes, Formula 1 bikes.
Epic battle with Hannah in 82' at Unadilla. Wise won if I recall.
Glenn
maybe much easy for the other brands for the “one team hero”, Jeff Ward-Kawasaki, Mark Barnett-Suzuki, Broc Glover-Yamaha, and KTM’s Heinz Kinigadner!
@ NoWingNoPrayer, and Jeff Stanton also dominates the MXoN, the Unadilla GP, and the Daytona SX between 1989 to 1992 and also beat JMB many times at Bercy at the same period
sorry for my bad English
maybe much easy for the other brands for the “one team hero”, Jeff Ward-Kawasaki, Mark Barnett-Suzuki, Broc Glover-Yamaha, and KTM’s Heinz Kinigadner!
@ NoWingNoPrayer, and Jeff Stanton also dominates the MXoN, the Unadilla GP, and the Daytona SX between 1989 to 1992 and also beat JMB many times at Bercy at the same period
sorry for my bad English
DAVEY YOU ARE SMOKING SOMETHING WITH THAT LIST.
Really RC didn't make the top 10
I concur w/ DC's choices for the most part, BUT...I'd would have put RJ higher in the standings and taken Steve Lamson off and replaced him w/ Magoo. Granted, Danny Chandler didn't win any SX/MX titles w/ Honda but his performances at the Motocross (and Trophee) des Nations warrants him to be on the list. I'm not bagging on Lamson, cause he was a good rider, but I just don't see him on the top ten list. Just my two cents...
lechien-o'mara-hannah-bailey-but who is the guy on the far left?
Clearly, Honda is a beloved brand. In the '80's you either had a Honda or got beat by them. There are a lot of folks coming out of the woodwork griping about this article and the only advice I can give DC is "shoulda made it 20". Not that it would change the bellyaching, but to include some that were omitted. I see the RC argument from both sides and can offer this: It's his magazine / website / whatever and if he decides to make Ron Pomeroy or Kenny Keylon or Tommy Hahn the best Factory Honda rider ever then, that's how it will be so, love it , hate it, whatever, it is what it is.
ggphysics makes an excellent point. While GOATS achievements are in the books, so are the stats of the riders from the sports' "greatest generation".
bd200, DB actually is posting here so, I'd prefer to hear from the horse's mouth regarding any of that. Recieving education is far better than my espousing what I think I know.
pizzacorner, makes a good point as well, for his being a disrespectful punk that will never be taken seriously here again, EVER. Since he is a Cretin, I would expect he never learned to respect his elders, which in this case as well as others I'm certain, happen to be his betters. Next time, he should run it past the other 'tards in the pen to see if it really is a good idea before he begins typing, he'll be doing us all a great service.
what a waste of time this list is.
No RC. First perfect season on a Honda........
Are you feeling OK.....?
I also agree Magoo should be placed but, who to bump? A team as large and storied as Honda was, they do need a "top 20".
While one ride does not a career make, Magoo's '82 MXdN / TdN rides were stuff of legend, easily on par or better than Moates' '80 U.S.G.P. performance.
Zundapp, you got me with your other teams' "top 1", Too funny!
Damn, I got like 5-6 sentences, NICE! I speak the truth, it bothers the weak. No worries
JS7 would look good on a HONDA?
Mr. Coombs, once again pease stay off the drugs...
@ WFO_UFO, it's the great Danny "Magoo" Chandler with the Hurricane, The Machine, the O'Show, and the Little Professor (!!!) for the 1984’ American Honda MX/SX Team
in the eighties Honda was also Freddie Spencer and ... Eddy Lejeune (Trial)
How do you forget about Ricky Carmichael?
Somehow I remember magoo as having long blonde hair- maybe I am the one who should lay off the drugs!
All this talk of the great factory Honda riders of the past really shows how dismal the team has been recently.
“The world’s fastest novice" is the most stupid quote in the history (of mx journalism), ask David Bailey, Jeff Ward, and Ron Lechien what they thinks of David Thorpe at the 1985 MXoN, and The Dogger was also a fan of Thorpe, and the British flag sticker on the HRC 500 was great! sorry for my bad English
UUUUMM RC went perfect twice on honda, oh yeah, and he won EVERYTHING on a honda......................
Very hard subject to discuss. If it is the top ten riders by results rc needs to make the list. Hands down. But I don't really think of him as a red rider even though he did awesome. When you mention Honda I think rj or Stanton. When I think yamaha I think Hannah. Kawisaki Jeff ward. And Suzuki. Decoster. Suzuki maybe Barnett too. As for Carmichael. If Honda wasn't so stupid he would have won 9-10 championships for them and it would have been hard not to put him #1. I think rc ahold make top 10 list on all 3 brands he rode for.
DC..I not sure i would have even tried this list..Thankless job.
How could you leave Antonio Balbi off the list!?!
At the 2008 Daytona SX AB55 WON a heat race!, then conducted possibly the best post race interview ever (this side of Dean Wilson), and if that's not enough he then had the audacity to finish out the night with a super awesome career best 5th place finish in the main event, and yes you guessed it, he did it ALL on a Honda!
RC was a class act for Honda. He didn't bad mouth them on the way out and he rode the number one plate for the team before he left. People were loyal to Honda back in the day because if you weren't on Honda you didn't have much of a chance.
Are you kidding me? Rick Johnson should be listed ahead of JMB. Yeah that Frenchy was good, but Johnson was better...hands down!
Marty Smith made Honda MX! He is the "man" for Honda. Johnson, Bailey, Stanton, McGrath, Lamsom, Bayle, O'Mara, Windam, Thorpe all worthy of praise for sure but Smith is the original.
This list is more of a personal feeling than actual results. McGrath not #1, no R.C, and no Hanson, that is a truly wrong. Windham has NO TITLES on a Honda. Bailey is an ICON, but even he knows that he should not be ahead of MC, RJ, and RC.
WTF? Not only should they be #1, but forgetting to put RC in this list is like forgetting to Michael Jordan in a top 10 list for the best Chicago Bulls players.
RC has to be the list of Greatest Honda Riders of ALL Time! Everyone keeps saying that he had a 24 - 0 perfect season (the first ever in outdoor MX) which is true and speaks for itself on a CR 250 2 stroke to boot, but then he backed it up with another 24 - 0 perfect season (the second ever in outdoor MX) on a Honda CRF 450 4 stroke, which makes him the only rider ever to go 24 - 0 on a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke and both of those accomplishments were on a HONDA. How can he not be one of the best HONDA riders of all time?????
Kevin Windham is popular on his Honda, but his # of wins and greatest accomplishments are not on a Honda motorcycle........ so he's an easy switch to RC who should be #1 on this list. How can the GOAT (Greatest of all time) who's best accomplishments were on a HONDA not be on this list????
What about CR22?
You can not believe how big Marty Smith was back in the day. He was the start of your present day dominator . Style,speed,good looks he had it all. When Hannah came up and beat him on 125's he came back and won the 500's and nearly won the 250's in 1977.
Reed needs to be on that list now!
I think the confusion is with the title. I'm pretty sure the idea is when you think of so and so, you think of them on a honda. This is def a age issue... If you're 35 plus and been into moto ALL your life when you think of certain guys, you're GONNA think Honda. D.B.? Honda. No ass kissing, just the way it is. Just like Jeff Ward is all green... It's just like the ink blots( "whats the first thing you think of when you hear...) I think of R.J next... Marty smith? All Honda. As big of fan I am of R.C and K.W, I think of them bursting on the scene on a Kawi and a Blue Yam... But I am almost 40. ;) J. O'mara... Honda. Steve Lamson... Honda. Close your eyes and picture whoever....... What color are they on? ( careful.... yellow can be tricky )
Where's Leisky?
In general, journalists love it when people write in and b*tch about articles. They equate that to doing things right, since they get attention they can quantify. This is instead of having a lot of loyal, silent readers who aren't writing in or calling to b*tch. If the phones aren't ringing off the hook with complaints, or if nobody is writing and b*tching, they think nobody's reading the material.
Here are some more article ideas to fuel the flames:
- Ugliest riders of all time
- Fattest pros ever
- Dumbest riders
- Squirrelliest riders
- Champions with the most boring riding style
- Crash-a-holics
- Heaviest drinking pros
- Riders with the longest rap sheets
- Laziest pros of all time
- Riders with the worst attitudes
- Promising 80cc riders with the least success on big bikes
- Worst factory mechanics
- Most hated AMA officials
- Most heartless factories toward riders
- Worst factory bikes of all time
- 10 things that suck about Roger DeCoster
- Ugliest gear from 2011 advertisers
DeDe Malherbe earned a position on this list.
I wonder who nailed the most trophy girls?
Well this one sure brought out the "experts" I wonder how many of them were old enough to attend a race by themselves in 1980. I have always felt that Mr. Bailey is one of the smoothest riders I hve ever seen. Along with his accomplishments as a rider David Bailey helped add a very very much needed intellect to the broadcast booth Having a well spoken knowledgable rider in the broadcast booth is one of the things that has helped elevate the sport to where it is today. How many out there had to suffer thru a race listening to to "motormouth" and others much more suited for monster trucks and the WWF. One time an annoucer on TV proclaimed he (Emig) was getting holeshots because "maybe he had his chain adjusted tight". WTF?
Davey, While it is inconsequential, for the sake of journalistic accuracy. I am not sure if Huron, CA has a lake. You might want to ask either Holland or Kehoe. One of them is from Huron, CA I think.
Just got done reading all the responses . . . good times! First of all thank you Mr. Bailey, thank you for your personal insight into the top 10 . . . I believe you're the Single Top 10 responder that gave respect to the others and TOOTED YOUR OWN WELL DESERVED HORN. I imagine MC is prepping his ski boat and RC is focusing on turning left, nothing but respect for the most recently retired Honda guys but they didn't get fired up like Bailey! I am enjoying the fact that there is no way the internet tough guys would get this fired up over a Top Ten green, yellow, or blue list. Long live the red bikes!
Jim Pomeroy.....just because.
David Bailey, you are a class act for sure. Back in the eighties you won at spring creek. You and Gary were stuck in the traffic jam coming into Zumbro Falls. You were sitting on the hood of the car. My friends and I were watching all the cars go by and WOW-IT'S DAVID BAILEY- right there in front of us and talking to us-wooried about my buddy hobbleing down the road next to the car on his broken leg! Any chance you remember that? I will NEVER forget my few moments chatting with you that day. Definetly one of my best MX memories, And I've had a few being a fan for over 40 years. Thanks DB, glad DC thinks you're #1. He's not alone.
SORRY, BUT THE LIST IS LAME & INCORRECT WITHOUT THE GREAT RC INCLUDED. HE HAD THE FIRST UN-DEFEATED SEASON EVER ON A HONDA & THE HIGHEST WINNING PERCENTAGE OF ANY HONDA RIDER EVER.
David Thorpe makes the list but Doug Henry does not??
Thorpe?.... please. Andre Malherb or Eric Geboers would be a better selection for the token old school euro selection. I totally get leaving RC off. I don't think Honda with him, Kawi and zook for sure. But no Johnny O'Mara?
Wow! This really brought out the troops! Let's face it. Everybody out here would have a different list. It's just bench racing. Don't get so worked up!
I seen only one time RC wearing number one for honda. The gentelmen on the top ten list ... they all rides for one, to wear number one.
I seen only one time RC wearing number one for honda. The gentelmen on the top ten list ... they all rides for one, to wear number one.
Think of Red.
Marty
McGrath
O'Show
Bailey
Stanton
Magoo
Hannah
Windham
Carmichael
Reed is on his own team not Factory Honda. This list is Team Honda riders.
No G.O.A.T. what?? R.C. is probably the best to ever sit on a Honda.
Face it... RC is just no KW. KW may not have actually won achampionship for Honda, but we all know he has the mad skills to do it. Racerx should just publish a decree delaring KW the 2011 Motocross champion. I think he would like that.
The top 10 list should include Johnny Campbell and Bruce Ogilvie.
Love the list Jairtime, Here's my shot.
A- N/A
B- Marty Tripes
C- A. Short for staying on the 350
D- Damon Bradshaw
E- Jeff Stanton
F- Stewart, Magoo, Hepler
G- N/A
H- J-Law?
I- Ron Lechien?
J- The guy from the '70's that Yamaha (I think) paid to stay home.
K- Eddie Hicks
L- Don't Know
M- Steve Whitlock, Roy Janson,
N- Honda
O- Don't know (until a list of "most DNF's" is compiled, it's a popularity contest).
P- Leaving Honda for Hon. fans, leaving Suzuki for Suz. fans.
Q- Anything with "metal mulisha" on it.
I have my girl - friends on f/b send me "question party" stuff that's incredibly lame. This was far better.......and I didn't have to give up personal information or my secure connection. QP for (Moto) Men.
Bailey All The Way, Total BadAss and Class Act !!! Enough Said !!!
If you had to place Ricky Carmichael on a single brand of bike in which he ranked in the top 10, he wouldn't fall under the Honda column. He had 6 total championships on a Kawasaki (both 125 and 250) and a Motocross Des Nations trophy. He earned 5 total on the Honda and came up short in MXoN. RC saw 4 titles on his RM/RMZ and 2 MXoN victories on yellow as well. Like DC said, he would top either Kawasaki or Suzuki's top 10 list before touching Honda's.
WTF? How can you have a GOAT list without the GOAT? Davie, you're lame! Honda is still the NYY of all things moto. They just won both the SX and Lites class.
By not including RC on your list, you are a candidate for surgery.....to remove your head from your back side.
Gary Jones was the first Honda rider. Did a lot of R&D and won a championship. Great Honda rider.
Great debate, too, Davey!
DAVID WAS SUCH A SMOOTH RIDER,HE JUST FLOWED WITH THE BIKE AND NEVER LOOKED LIKE HE WAS WORKING TO HARD.KEVIN WAS THE NEXT ONE I REALLY NOTICED THAT HAD THAT SAME FLOW.LIKE THEY WERE MEANT TO RIDE MOTOCROSS BIKES.BOTH WERE GREAT ROLE MODELS AND AMBASSADORS OF OUR SPORT AND THEY STILL ARE.
Karsmakers, Malherbe, Noyce, Lackey etc were putting Honda on the World map of MX when half these guys were still filling thier diapers and sucking on their moms titties.
DC you list is fatally flawed old boy..
ggphysics....really...glenn...are you kidding us?...Glover, Barnett, Hanson, Hannah?
These guys were AARP members when DB lined up against them.
RJ ...Wardy... I'll give you a qualified MC and RC equivalent.
Magoo couldn't keep it on two wheels....Johny O was the ultimate overtrainer.... and Lechien was always stoned.
So what does that leave us with Glenn? Just the fact that RC was the only one to ultimately end MC's dominance.....and never let James Stewart beat him for a championship. Reed is also a very formidable foe with the ability to beat any rider here
After reading Racerhead and hearing about "WW3", I had to come back, like a train wreck you can't turn away from.
DC's point about RC is a valid one although, the "add RC" crowds arguments are just as valid. What to do?
Even IF GOAT were to be added, I'd still campaign for DB #1 (it seems there's just not enough old guys on here that remember M. Smith who I would've put as #1 in a tie-breaker over DB). I guess it comes down to age, if you could buy "leaded / regular" gasoline, you probably lean towards the current picks. If you've never ridden a two-stroke, you probably lean towards the MC / RC side of the fence.
Pleas, please, please do the rest of the makes, that would be almost as good as the "40 years of MX" bit. And just so everyone knows, I'm not giving away my Hodaka picks!
The Kawie & Suzuki guys are waiting to add RC as well......................
Carlsbad...as much as I hate to foil anyones assumtions... my first full blown racer...after i retired my Rupp of course.... was a 360 Bultaco Pursang...And if I changed the rings every six hours as the race manuel suggested....it would smoke a Hodaka Combat Wombat
Great list and great to see the interest in the list. Of course DC or anyone else could have a different top ten every time you write it. When you think Honda you think RJ, Smith, Thorpe, Bayle, O'Mara, Bailey, Everts, and so many more. RC won two titles with them, but so to did Everts and I don't see to many people mentioning Stefan in the list.
Well done DC and thanks for the list.
Reactionaries not getting it by ignoring what is being presented by projecting what they wish the author intended. Even if you have no abstract intuitive sense, it's not that difficult to understand what was trying to be expressed when viewing the list as a whole. This is why everything is a shouting match in this modern instant gratification world. DB was the absolute best pick considering the criteria of the list as determined by DC, hands down.
DC - - - Ok, lets put this thing to rest once and for all. The top 10 list is a little subjective, but the following is not: Marty Smith by definition is #1 on the Honda list; Carmichael and Hannah should also make the top 10 somewhere. Bottom line is that all the great Honda MX stars cannot fit into 10 slots. This list is a good starting point though - - -maybe let the readers vote on a top 10 (or 20) and compile a new list. 'Nuff said. Nice effort DC.
A solid list.
Unfortunately it is only 10, so somebody will be left out.
I absolutely agree with DB as #1.
When I close my eyes and think of "Honda" I still see him floating through the air at the six flags national and being in awe of how easily he tamed that track on the 500.
While RC had some incredible seasons on Honda, IMO, the field certainly wasn't as deep as it was in Bailey's hey day.
Only in 2011 have we seen any similarities to the depth that there was in the early to mid 80's (and isn't it AWESOME?)
One detail that was left out of Marty Smith's history was that he also won the 500 title in '77. He was certainly more than a 125 specialists.
He just never seemed to get back up to speed after the dislocated hip he suffered in '79.
I look forward to the Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki top 10 lists soon. (and don't forget Maico, Bultaco, and puch).
Sorry, I don't know why it did the spacing like that.
I hope somebody will be able to edit it.
Dont I feel like an ass. I picked R/C...(the perfect season) AND David himself responds sorry david, you are mr honda when ya think about it, as roger is mr suzuki. truely sorry. AND I owe you alot of thanks for printing,, "the faster you can stop, the faster you can go" statement some yrs back, I passed a bunch of folks after the ski jump at red butt, using that advise, w/ drum brakes. Thank you david for all you have done for the sport,......can ya broadcast for us anymore? or will ya, you were the best at that too sir,...thanks dave!
@comedian not a hodaka w/ a gyt kit, and 3 shots of don Q's 151 in the tank, and the throttle duct taped open.
What about "The MAN"? DeCoster closed out his riding career (with a win) and then went on to (unarguably) build the greatest team EVER for Honda for 16 years!
David Bailey is the reason my parents went out and bought an '83 Honda CR80 and why I wore JT gear! David belongs at number 1 on that list! Remember, those were the days where you either won or Honda gave you your walking papers. David Bailey won! He's smoother than any rider ever, including Bayle, Windham, or anyone else. Can you tell I'm a fan? I even got his autograph years later at the Seattle supercross where he talked to us for a while and braided my friends' daughter's hair! Class act and pure excellence on a dirt bike.
RC is number one on EVERY brand he rode. He could have won on a GasGas.
There's no doubt about top 3
1) Bailey
2) Bayle
3) O'mara
That 's when you see it from europe ;O)
Greatest generation may be more about nostalga than reality. Yes, the riders and competition in the 80's was great and the big names were there (Luckily, I did get to see a few great races including MXDN in Unidalla in 88 or 87, Hannah's last win after O'mara ran out of gas, and a few others). However, it is hard to compare generations. It is like saying the 72 Dolphins (I stretching here since most MXer's don't know about other sports) with their undefeaten season are better than a team today just due to their accomplishment at the time. The riders today eat better, train better, have more rigorius schedules. Their tracks are harder, they have more off track committments. The bikes are faster and the jumps are bigger. Everything today (whenever today is) is harder than before and more dangerous since technology continually improves things (in general).
RC could still be top 5 and top 3 if he trained for 90 days (after 180 days he would probably be winning races). As the list is the "greatest" RC is the only logical choice. While Bailey thinks he is more loyal (the questions is loyal a matter of options or circumstances), RC is just better.
I know I'm late to the game here.Marty Smith is the sports 1st true superstar.He also help Honda sell more cr125(motorcycles that probably all the others combined.Thats a fact.Check with some oldhead that still works at Honda.
Comedian, My dad had a 360 Pursang and it was awesome. Time and my being very young probably accounted for a larger portion of the awesomeness than the 'Sang truly offered but, it was the first "big" bike I fired up after my Dad said "if you can start it, you can ride it". Then came the FXR Harley, 'Ole Dad wasn't as accomodating after realizing my starting prowess was growing exponentially! Anybody remember "tickling the carb"?
Mark Hinkle kicked everyones butt in Michigan pretty regularly with a montesa 250....and I think the open bike, was a 360 . duels with Alan King at red bud were inspiring.
Without question there was more depth to the field in '83 compared to RC's reign. By 1983 (DB's 1st AMA title year) there was Magoo, Ward, Mosier, Howerton, Barnett, Reid, Glover, Johnson, Lechien, O'mara & Hannah. That's 11 names right there that could win a SX any given night, ELEVEN names!!! Add Holley, Myerscough, Cantaloupi, Keylon, Staten, Burnsworth, Pederson, etc and you've got a race to the death just to be top 10! The (flip) AARP comment doesn't hold water for me, Reed, Windham & Brown are still killing it and they are as old, if not older than who was mentioned by comedian.
RXI could make a very interesting piece regarding those stats
I am wondering if the 83 field was filled with very good riders (with high profile names that we all began to assume were great riders) who were all at the same level, where as Carmichael's field had the same talent level but those riders were made to appear less skilled due to Carmicheal's abnormal talent. I bet that Carmicheal's competition could have been in the mix in 83 winning just as many races as Ward, Bailey, Hannah, etc, and if Carmichael raced in 83 he would have went undefeated. The only real challenge to Carmichael is McGrath (Supercross only) and Stewart (regardless of his current downward trend).
The list is a powerful reminder of all the great racers that wore the Honda colors. Having grown in it's infancy in the sport of motocross, Honda would have never gotten where they were so quickly, without the likes of competitors such as Gary Jones, Marty Smith, Marty Tripes and even semi-privateer and big-bore guinea pig, Gary Chaplin. Most of the racers after this group did benefit from the lessons learned and the development aided by great mechanics and great rider/designers such as Pierre Karsmakers and....hold your breath, Roger DeCoster! In his time, Marty Smith generated more of an "impact" for Honda - than did any other rider in that era. If you look at the overall picture, each and every rider did however, contribute in a big way for the red, white and blue team. Let's not forget Steve Wise, Warren Reid, Rex Staten, Rich Eierstedt and the original poster boy....Bruce Baron.
@ Lamont. I disagree with your comments. An accurate way to compare RC with the guys in the '80s is to look at the fundamental character traits of these riders. The reason why the '80s were so great was because there were 7 or 8 guys on the gate that had the same belief system and work ethic as RC had. Comparing technical skills between the generations is useless. The '80s guys hated to loose as much as RC did. The '80s guy's committment to training was just as fierce as RC's. The '80s guys had instincts and intelligence on par with RC's. The '80s guys had desire like RC and knew how to get work done like RC. The '80s guys always looked for an advantage just as RC did. The '80s guys took relative risks just as much as RC did. The '80s guys were willing to sacrafice as much as RC did. The '80s guys cared more about winning than they did about money, just as much as RC did. It's all the same.
I mean no disrespect to the field during RC's day, but looking at an entire season as a whole, all of them gave up mentally; RC had nearly all of them beat every race before the gate dropped and the '80s elite guys NEVER would have settled into a long-term mindset of just racing for 2nd. KW had his days where he had the right belief in himself to stick it to RC, but he had a complex mental make-up that perhaps didn't quite lend itself to sustaining his brief break-throughs for an entire season. So besides KW, it took until 2005 for two guys (JS and CR) to come along that hated to loose as much as RC.
RJ said one time that when RC or JS would go down at a race everyone's lap times would get faster by a small percentage. What does that tell you? Remember Pontiac '02? All of a sudden a bunch of guys thought they had a chance to win the race and then we all saw real effort from everyone. But most of these guys blew it, probably because "riding to win" was something they hadn't practiced in their mind since RC convinced them that it was futile to even try. What does that say about the belief system of the rest of the field back then? Bailey, RJ, Ward, O'mara ... they've all commented on this and said that an RC in the '80s would not have had as many race wins and titles back in the '80s. An '80s RC may still have been the most dominant, but there were going to be real challenges every moto and every main event, to be sure. No perfect seasons and much shorter win streaks.
I love all the eras that I've lived through as an MX fan. But in the '80s, it really was 7 or 8 "RCs" on the gate every race. It's refreshing to see lately that there are, again, at least, what(?), 4 or 5 guys in the premiere class who believe in themselves regardless of how bad things get, have the instinct and work ethic of a champion, and won't settle for less than being the best.
Every one of you have your opinions and it's all good. And yes Carlsbad I remember "tickling the carb" and so does David. Those were the good old days. Well, here is what I think if anyone cares! You can't say, if so and so were there back in the 70s, 80s or 90s he would beat those guys. Or if this guy was here now he would win. It's different. If you put all the guys from today, the 90s and the 80s on the bikes from the 60s most would not ride. In fact they would not ride because of the bike and because the tracks were not all prepped and perfect. It was like, here it is, ride it or go home. All these guys are awesome that make it to the top. Let's not talk about who could have or would have. It's like the record books show. If you were the best on that day or the best that year you were the guy. Give them all credit for what they have done. If you ask me who was the best I would say David Bailey, oh wait that's not fair. We all have the ones we like for whatever reason, and as far as David in his short time on Honda he had a lot of success and was on top of his game. Many say that if he had had more time he would had won this and that but we don't know that for sure. He had an awesome ride while he was there and I am very proud of the hard work he put in. For me the 80s were the best because there were so many that could have won on any day. And once again I am pumped to go to the races and see racing, not go to see some guy run away with it because the rest don't want to put in the work. To all that work hard and make it to top because of your hard work you are awesome and you are all number one. Let's don't try to discredit anyone let's give credit where credit is due. The guys that are in the battle for the win every week now are the guys that want it the most and are working the hardest. So to those I say may the best man win. Oh, just in case I didn't make it clear David Bailey is # 1 on this list for me.
The way this question is presented determines the answer: "Honda'a greatest Racer" or "The greatest racer to ride Honda" means the answer must be DeCoster, Carmichael or Everts; "Honda's most famous racer" or "popular" racer could be Smith or DeCoster; Honda's "most stylish and smooth rider" could be Bailey, Bayle, Lechien or Smith; Honda's "fastest racer" could be Magoo, and so forth. Just too many greats to fit in the top 10. This would make a great article for your magazine.
Would have liked to have seen Magoo's name on that list...
I wish so bad I would of been a little older to see the epic battles of the 80's. Growing up in the 90's it was Jeremy McGrath. he made all of my buddies and I want red bikes. He was stylish and cool. To this day whenever someone mentions Honda I think of him first. If this list isnt about wins, but who has done the brand the most good, I would choose him. Im sure if I would of been old enough to watch you race david, I would of chose you.
Reply to tag680:
Tag, great comments. However, I disagree in the fundatmental question over talent vs competition. I am arguing that the 80's were great for competition since the riders were all about the same riding level. They were able to battle with each other becasue they were all riding at the same pace, the wins were most likely attributable to off-days by some riders and good days by others. The riders in Carmichael's era would also have had 7-8 guys going for a title if they didn't have to compete against RC. We will never know, but if I were betting, I would say that RC would have demoralized the field in the 80's and Bailey, Johnson, Hannah, and Ward would have been riding for second just as the riders did against RC. It is a stretch to say that just because the guys in the 80's were riding in a pack that that pack could have kept up with RC.
Lamont,
I understand. My point was to try to discern the most "apples to apples" comparison possible between generations. Others have thrown this question around: In the '80s, were we looking at a bunch of "RCs" going head-to-head every weekend, or were we looking at a bunch of "2nd tier" guys going head-to-head because there was no real super-talented phenom like RC to make them all look bad. I just happen to side with the crowd that says the '80s crew was essentially a bunch of "RCs" because the character profiles of all those great multi-time champions vis-a-vis RC is virtually the same. You side with the "2nd tier" opinion, which I respect, but if I had to bet my house on it, I would feel very comfortable with my position. There's no way to ever know for sure, which is what makes this so fun and intriguing to talk about!
It has been said that at the very top level, it is over 90% mental - perhaps nearly ALL mental, aside from luck playing a factor here and there. The Professor is right: If you're in a main at a SX or on the gate for a National moto, you're awesome; no doubt about it. However, after that, it's those with the strongest minds and greatest resources (e.g. factory support) that will prevail as a championship contender year after year.
Since this top 10 list honored DB at the top, I would like to step aside from the RC arguments and just say a few things:
Professor, you are being humble. I am also biased as a life-long db fan, but I'll say it because you won't: Had things been different, David would've taken away at least one title each from Ward, RJ and Stanton between '87-'90! It would've been awesome to see!
DB is truly the John Lennon of the motocross world and his colors will always be Honda colors. David is probably continually embarrassed by all the praise that is heaped on him year after year, but it is what it is. He stands tall among us. We hold him in such high regard not because he is perfect, but because we know he is fallible, just like the rest of us. In the midst of self-doubt, self-pity and big mistakes, he has often chosen the most difficult path: the path that requires us to own up to our shortcomings, overcome them and build upon our strenghts - to do things right and make it right in the end.
I'm not sure if David (or anyone else for that matter) is still browsing this thread, but here is a personal note and thank you:
Last year, at age 40, I fought throat cancer. To someone like me 18 months ago, laying in bed with radiation burns all over my throat, inside and out, barely able to swallow and throwing up from chemo all the time, guys like Lance Armstrong and David Bailey become really important, second only to your immediate loved ones. The soul must become the warrior in such situations. There is no one I know on the face of this earth who has more fight in them than David or Lance. I'm fine now. I'm healthy and cancer free. I've gained my weight back. I'm swimming, surfing, skateboarding, running, and taking bike rides with my 6-year old daughter. What is so cool about David is that, quite some time ago, he transcended motocross. Not only do I think of David when I think of Honda; I think of David when I think about living a quality life with gratitude and respect.
David, if you're reading, THANK YOU! One day I will walk up to you and shake your hand.
RC was a throw back to the guys in the 80's. Those guys all had heart and they trained like animals. They were doing triatholons the day after races! There's a reason why old guys like Dowd can go out there a school a good portion of the pros these days. I go to local races and see the vets beating all the young guns all the time.
Peeked back in here cuz my dad told me he said something. Pretty impossible to get that list right, but it's been fun to read most of the stuff. To you guys from Millville and the racquetball and braiding hair, I remember it all. I remember the lines I took there in '83! Really fun times. One of the coolest things about doing TV for a while was hanging out in the stands during practice talking to fans. Met some really good people like that. Tag680...damn! Glad you recovered. I'd really like to talk to you
951 219-2376
Peeked back in here cuz my dad told me he said something. Pretty impossible to get that list right, but it's been fun to read most of the stuff. To you guys from Millville and the racquetball and braiding hair, I remember it all. I remember the lines I took there in '83! Really fun times. One of the coolest things about doing TV for a while was hanging out in the stands during practice talking to fans. Met some really good people like that. Tag680...damn! Glad you recovered. I'd really like to talk to you
951 219-2376
and where is ashley fiolek still love you david bailey