Going for the W: Who is Riding Hondas?
Thursday, April 21, 2011 | 1:15 PM
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PrintYesterday the internet was buzzing with rumors of Honda trying out a new rider for the summer, but not the Honda team that you think. Yes, the factory Honda squad, American Honda Racing, is indeed on the lookout for a fill-in on the team since Trey Canard and Josh Grant are out with injuries. Kevin Windham and Chad Reed have been linked to that team, and from what we hear, Windham may be the one who gets the spot. Remember, he meshed well in a fill-in roll last summer, while Reed has an entire team, sponsors and staff invested in his TwoTwo Motorsports Bel-Ray Racing program, so moving over may not even be an option. To give an example, the factory Honda team uses Pro Honda Oils, while Bel-Ray has made a major committment to Reed.
Will someone be aboard Josh Grant's number 33 come Hangtown?
Photo: Simon Cudby
American Honda Racing manager Erik Kehoe did confirm over the weekend that they expect Grant and Canard to return to action a few rounds into the season. But the team could find a way to keep three riders for the full twelve rounds if they had to. As Kehoe explained, a replacement rider could be running up front in the standings after a few races, and they're not going to pull someone out of a championship position.
But yesterday's rumors didn't revolve around factory Honda, Windham or Reed. They concerned Christophe Pourcel--and the GEICO Powersports Honda team. CP did indeed test the GEICO 450 yesterday at Pala Raceway, and spy photos showed up to prove it. However, a source within the GEICO team says the deal is not complete yet, and yesterday was just a test session. In fact, Pourcel reportedly has another test scheduled today with Valli Motorsports Yamaha.
Although creating replacement rides in mid season has become pretty common over the last few seasons, it's not as easy as it seems. Most teams tap their budget out from the first day of the season. If a team has money, they will spend it on salaries, parts, support, testing and other elements. No team can afford to keep a rainy day slush fund on the side in case they want to add a rider later in the year. Hence, it's hard to put any type of salary together for a replacement rider. For someone like Fabien Iziord and Monster Energy Kawasaki, some bonuses and an opportunity to work with a team is enough to make a deal work. For a rider of the caliber of Pourcel, Windham or Reed, it's not as easy.
Where will CP land for 2011?
Photo: Simon Cudby
And even if the rider goes without a salary, the team will still spend a ton in covering his expenses, as well testing, and maintaining bikes, parts and mechanics. Teams can easily be into six figures before they pay the rider a single dollar.
So, back to Pourcel. GEICO Honda believes they can find the funds to get a 450 on the road for Pourcel this summer (they wouldn't have tested with him if they couldn't). But there's precious little else to offer. Also, at the Dallas Supercross a few weeks ago, Mitch Payton maintained that he would like to help his former rider in any way possible. That could mean building a small Pro Circuit 450 operation for the summer, or, perhaps providing additional support to a team that already works with Pro Circuit. In this case, GEICO Honda works with Payton for engines and exhaust systems. And Valli Motorsports even uses Pro Circuit suspension.
After missing the entire SX season it is looking more and more likely that Pourcel will be on the gate come Hangtown.
Photo: Simon Cudby
What does this all mean? Pourcel isn't signed yet--there's nothing official whatsover between he and the GEICO Honda team. However, after several months where the trail seemed cold, teams are now clearly on the case in trying to employ him, and we expect something to materialize soon. Pourcel will no doubt be a front runner in the Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship as long as he gets out there. Good news is, it looks like it just may happen.
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I think this is going to be an epic outdoor season, no drop outs well except for maybe JS7. The talent is deep and great for the fans.
CP377 is gong to be sick this outdoor season!
If anything TWO TWO MOTORSPORTS will be factory backed for outdoors and possibly sx so he will have all the same parts just won't be under the FH tent... either way i am sure we will be seeing more of Cr22 and his team!!!
I'm a big Pourcel fan, so I hope one of these deals works out. I hear that Stewart is doing outdoors as well, which will be awesome. Also, can't wait to see RV kill it in MX. I have been awaiting his return ever since he destroyed the field at the opener in '09.
A team would be mad not to sign cp for the summer if they had the space. What's the worst he's going to do.. Top 5... He could more than likely perform better than the rider he's filling in for..
A team would be mad not to sign cp for the summer if they had the space. What's the worst he's going to do.. Top 5... He could more than likely perform better than the rider he's filling in for..
He still does not have a ride? Why? He should have been dialed in and ready, the outdoors are almost here and the Supercross guys are already testing and he is still looking for a ride. CP could have been ahead of the game, instead it looks like he will pushing to just to get his setup down come Hangtown.
reed if he races will race till he gets some type of sickness or his a@@ is being handed to him by the king of outdoors james stewart, then he will drop out.
SOMEBODY GIVE THIS GUY A CHECK!! he should be locked in and testing right now, not having to figure it out a few weeks before season opener. WTF is going on?!
I had no idea Mitch Payton builds engines and suspension for Geico as well, thats his biggest rival
or is this saying he possible WOULD help them on Pourcels bike?
Thats old new 313, NO Suspension though, Just motors for the Geico team. They made there name in new england doing Suspension. Good ol Ricky Z.
The gate will be stacked, Just wish TC was on it too. Either way best oputdoors season in YEARS on the way!! I finaly get to see if RV is as good as I think outdoors.
I hope Pourcel and Reed are both on the line come Hangtown.
I think Honda has this backwards. They need a to lock down a main rider and let the fill in (Josh Grant) ride his 3 races before he is injured again.
CP has a bit to prove as far as showing more heart and determination in the second moto. That is most likely where the apprehension from team managers to bring him on.
David Villiman mentioned on the PulpMX podcast this week that CP would noticeably fade in many of the 2nd motos due to conditioning. But when he was pressed on the issue CP said he just needed to relax during the week, or ride jet skis, rather than train for endurance and such.
I hope he lines up at Rd 1, and then gets smoked and lands around 7-10 position.
Imagine that .. a fast smooth Frenchman riding Honda .. reminds me of the good ol days (jmb)
"Pourcel will no doubt be a front runner in the Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship" - remains to be seen since he hasn't raced a 450F outdoors against top AMA competition.
313 - I would guess he builds only 450F motors/exhaust for Geico, not 250F since he runs a competing 250F race team - but who knows!
Harsh, Jake511 but true.
Just so I am clear
Even if JS does not get #1 in SX and does not race the outdoor series;
He is still the fastest man on the planet
I need to type in my nonsense chats that "if" he was racing outdoors he would be killing it and beating everyone.
What are you JS Lovers gonna due all summer long without your JSE?
BillC.. Agree... If all those riders line up.. It will be one of the best stacked field for the outdoors in years!!!
And I reckon.. Dungey is going to get smacked again... And he will be just relying heavily on his consistency and the many changes they make to his bike.. ha,ha
Villopoto is going to take this summer, he is gnarly!!
Hey SXFAN...word is JS is running the outdoors...that's part of the reason Larry Brooks is gone. James always wanted to run the outdoors...his contract did not allow him!
For me it has always been, and always will be, a out the outdoors. That is where men race. Tough, demanding, physical, the elements, two moto format.
Going to be a good season, and yes I am an RV fan as I watched him grow up racing in the NW. He flat hauls the mail on rough nasty outdoor tracks.
Can not wait!
Larry Brooks wouldn't let him run outdoors? ROFLMAO, you probably think he's just spending time with his family too right?
@Banjo^^^ His Contract didnt allow him to race outdoors. Larry made sure that the team was a supercross only team. Thats why James Bought part of it.
@BD Mitch does some of the motor work for Geico but not all a few yeas ago my best friend raced for FC/Geico and his 250f had 42 1/2hp That same year mitch had his little green demon bikes pumping out 44-46 hp and they detuned them because they kept grenading! People dont realize is that Pro circuit is the best engine builder in the world 450/250 dsnt matter he knows his shit, So to me when i hear chad reeds bike this or that his bike is probably alot better than some factory bikes the diffrence is the wide variety of parts you can test or use but rest asure mitch will build or manufctr whatever trick partthey need. If Stewart was smart he would drop that crap exhaust company he has AKAwhatever and have PC do his pipes and motors.
CP377 Blows...tell that kid to kick rocks....
I thought Pourcel couldnt train because of a past injury that hindered him? im pretty sure he cant train at all, if so very little...
For all of you Stewart lovers that have always referred to Stewart at the "fastest man on the planet" Here is a "reality" news flash for you. Stewart "in his prime" on his best day could never come close to beating the GOAT. Charmichael was "way" in Stewarts head. Stewart like all other would show up to the track and race for 2nd place. SX yes he's the best ever including McGrath. Pourcel has the talent and the speed to run with any of the fastest 450 guys. The outdoor guys to beat will be Villopotto, Dungey, Pourcel, Stewart and Reed. Be a fan of who you choose, but all 4 of them are capable of winning, like it or not. Grant was "bad/weak" sign by Honda, even healthy, can't run with that top group. Speaking the Truth...I'm Just Sayin!
hope k dub gets the ride would love to see him run the full series i think he can win it all. if he comes out the first round with the drive go k dub!
vetracer...I though it was interesting that carmichael even stated that he was not faster than james but he was in better shape at the time. That's why James instantly hired aldon baker when ricky retired!
RC was taking better steroids, thats all...
BD - Those HP numbers sound right on for a full race, $30,000 4 stroke that only lasts 1-2 races. The problem is that my 10 year old YZ250 2 stroke puts out that much with nothing more than an FMF pipe & V-Force reeds!!! I also get 50-60 hours out of a top end.
Forgetting Wiemer and Metcalf?
Like the SX season the MX season wil be EPIC
Pourcel is still waiting for the $$$ he diserves to get paid. Any team would take him. Can honda afford him? not sure why he'd ride a Honda because they already have K'dub and Reed. Plus Trey and Grant after a few rounds. Honda's budget might not be able to handle Pourcel. It would be nice to see him on a Pro circuit 450 riding for Mitch. Pay this guy what he diserves and lets watch Superman ride. Bet he could put it down on a 350 also
@Mxlord327 correct that's what they are ! Again they are 250fs which not only have the HP of your kids 250 two-smoker but have tons more torque, anywho thats comparing apples to oranges, compare a PC 450 against any 250cc 2stroke game over thast why you only see them in amateur races or you local hare & hound scramble!
If i was Grant, I would hang up my boots and give my wife a factory ride if you know what I'm sayin'. Gigity
RV might be poking along (oh thats right ,he leading in points ..still) at SX ,but outdoors he is capable of laying down a serious beatdown on anyone but Havoc7. Grant will do his two races then Honda will need CP because Reed (without the suzuki) struggles.@bd AKRAPOVIC makes VERY nice pipes (does JS7's bike look slow?) and if you think a 'factory' Yamaha ,Kaw, Suzuki,Honda ,motor lacks anything to a PC motor (which work fantastic also) you are seriously mistaken.CP will need plenty of juice to hang with RV and RD for two full motos in the heat.
the San manuel band of indians didn't have the money to pay stewey to do outdoors, thats why its always been SX only. But with stews money he can do whatever he wants. CP's gonna smoke people. He finds smooth lines everywhere and is the smoothest i've seen in years. He lets a 450 pull him around good and will be able to run 35 mins no prob. Cut him a check already!
@tonewall 100% #7 bike is a DOG! and that's comin straight from James! And the fit and finish of an AKwhatever pipe may be nice but it looks ugly as sin bulky as a fat chick in skinny jeans and sounds like crap, And a lil FYI on factory motors, the days of full blown works bikes are long gone guy, motor specs are sent over from japan where an american ports the heads and assembels them to japenese specs, Yamaha motor guys are dean baker & jim perry helps also Ex Pro Circuit guys. Factory suzuki when Rc raced used Mitch to port and modify there heads also. Food for thought eat up...
One more thing Akawhatever exhaust is a foreign exhaust company Ill spend my money on american companies like PC,FMF, even Bills or Big Gun, DR.D these are people who support our kids and racer their entire carrers, I dont see any banners , tuff block, @races iv'e been to being sponsored by that company.
@BD, it's funny that after you gave a busted review of Akrapovic pipes....probably because you have used so many in your career...you went straight to the good old made in the USA argument. Try starting with that one next time, it makes you look less like an ass who is back tracking and trying to find a way to support a ridiculous claim that JS7's bike is a "dog" because of the pipe he runs, obviously if he went to a Pro Circuit pipe that would solve the problem.
he may not win the title, but once TC gets back in, he will dominate.
@ Gills I have rode a yz450 with th ak pipe and the thing dsnt look or sound good fact! Heres another fact name one other team that uses those pipes here in yes USA? Fact is that when i talk to the Geico engine builder (Kibby) and he tells me that his team has tested All of the pipes out and the best 2 are PC &FMF; i belive him! Fact is when i ask people from ktm,suzuki, vali yamaha & Hart & Hunington who have every option to use whatever pipes they want for their race teams AKwhatever pipes are @ the bottom of the list! So no a PC pipe isnt gonna make the #7 bike leaps better than it is now but a PC pipe with a Mitch Payton Race head will! So gilly hows the weather across the pond......
@bd having built pipes and motors for 40 yrs i know a little about head porting and pipe construction but seeing as you have spoken to obviously EVERYONE in the world about it ,including having Stewart tell you his bike is slow I must conclude that everything you like is great and everything you don't like is crap. I can though spell the pipes name your hating. Also your views on 2 vs 4 strokes are moronic. A modern 450 2 stroke with power and reed valves ,modern ignition could be made to perform as well OR BETTER than a 4 stroke...just ask Mitch when your hanging out.
Never leave a comment but damn!!! Good for Pourcel!! Rooting for him mx
In Supercross we had 5 major players in the 450 class each week. In outdoors we may have 10 or more. You can ad Pourcel, Metcafe, Grant, Weimer, Alessi (450), KW, Regal, Short and whoever in to the podium mix. If a top rider gets a bad start, he may not be able to get through that pack too easily. Sounds like one hell of a summer comming up!
@Tonewall please proofread your posts, the moonshine you obviously have been drinking has really warped your views. 40 years building pipes huh & motors for who? what racers have used your motors or pipes? Talk is cheap I been good friends with some lets say better than average racers throughout the years. And feel free to come by the shop off the 91 & surfasclub and talk shop (SHIT) about how you can make a 250 2 stroke outperform a Race 450, & bring a coors light since you been in the game so long im sure you know those boys love a cold CL! P.S. Are you one of those big bore guys that takes a 250 and turns it into a 360cc hill climber? ahhhh starting to make since now tonewall.
crazy how all these people bash on Larry Brooks,I'm sure he got tired of JS7's whiny little attitude & just threw in the towel, Larry knows what it takes too win championships,im sure he will resurface with another team & win more! And by the way,does anyone really think they can compare Stewart to the "Goat"?Not a chance..Seems like someone fell of the watermelon truck!
@bd never said a 250 will deal with a 450. Never built a 360 anything. I don't need to drop a bunch of names to impress anyone either. I grew up in so.cal and was probably a pro when you were crapping your pants. I ride a 450 rmz with a PC pipe so your not the only guy to get it. You probably think the only fast guys are at the nationals or your track ,trust me there are plenty of people who can ride and more than a few that can build fine motors. And as for proofreading its obvious you don't.
@ BD200/tonewall.
First off bd you need a hobby posting clearly fries you're brain tonewall stated "a modern 450 2-stroke would be as fast or faster " not a 250 made to a 360 honestly how did you come up with that crap
tonewall you forgot about rotory valve, light switch powerband, but gobs of power,
P.S. I think bd might be a hater.
If Honda wants to get a 250 2-stroke ready, I'm pretty much available for all 12 rounds.
@ tonewall " Also your views on 2 vs 4 strokes are moronic. A modern 450 2 stroke with power and reed valves ,modern ignition could be made to perform as well OR BETTER than a 4 stroke" This was your statment guy? I think you meant a 250 2 stroke right? Either way you slice it it dosn't make since are you saying 250 4 stroke vs 250 2 stroke?? I hope u have more common sense than that. I too grew up in so. cal, Glen Helen, racetown , De anza, Perris (the old perris when Goat Brecker ran it), starwest, barona oaks, this is where i raced and grew up and still ride most of them weekly! Why do you use a PC pipe if you build them yourself? I think you missed my whole point of what I was saying which was the #7 bike in my opinion isn't as good as the Honda of reed, RMZ of dungey,or KXF of RV, If Js owns his own team why not get the best product on his bike like Reed did ? You know yamaha is gonna help him out with "factory" parts that really aren't that trick anymore like back in the day when if you hade a cone pipe everybody knew you got some special help. Now everybody has Ti parts on their bikes only thing is those crazy maped ignition curves & trannies were u have 100 choices to choose from. The reason that the Best pipe talk came about was because Lil D @ fmf has been telling me for years they had the best pipes out which i just didn't believe and when factory kawi jumped ship i wanted to know why so i asked the facory & privateer mechanics that i knew and to my suprise they gave the FMF pipe some serious cred from their riders feed back, and now wattching PC use the power bomb style head pipes says alot. @ grawz the refrence to turning a 250 and putting a big bore kit bumping it to a 360 has been goin on for years what rock have u been under?? The point that i was making is thats the only way i see a 250cc 2 stroke being relative in todays 450 class.
I own a 330cc two-stroke (non-power valve, runs on 50/50 race fuel) quad that has never met a 450 four stroke it couldn't pull.....anywhere so, anyone arguing 4 is better than 2, is really exposing their ignorance to me. 62 rear wheel, documentable, ridable horsepower (a little harder to kick than stock but, still far easier than 450/4) out of a motor I can rebuild in the time it takes to adjust valves on a four..........no contest. Before anyone gets started I also own harleys and dirt bikes so, don't go there. I just like bikes. My mother said I belonged behind bars........so I ran with it.
KTM is the best hope of releasing a modern 350/400cc D.I. 2-stroke that will embarrass 4-strokes, the economy just isn't right for making this available.
@carlsbad i agree a 330-360 2stroke is gonna be able to compete with a built for 450 i say "built" because usually all you need is a pipe on those things and its good enough to get you hurt!.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Honda support Reed's TWO-TWO team effort with Pourcel being signed by Chad (with support from Honda and/or Monster), after all Reedy can't ride forever and what happens to the team after he hangs up his boots, quit - that ain't in Chad's vocabulary.
KW racingthe outdoors would go a long way with me. If he rode with heart it would really be cool.
@bd .....Why can't you read what i actually wrote 450..450 ..450 .!!!!! not primitive big bore kits or any stupid hillbilly crap . A modern 450 2 stroke COULD,..they don't make them.WHY? because idiots will pay 800 dollars for a pipe that looks good (you said it not me) and some love to pump $ into expensive rebuilds . I make my living doing them,and i thank Honda for that valve train every day. My bike was bought used with a pipe and thats fine but i could easily use the stock pipe because 99.99999 guys can,t ,including me can't use what a stock 450 has.Most pipes are sold to guys like you who think it will make them cooler with there friends or make them fast when a little more practice will do the same. The 'old' Perris is when Burtons owned it.I grew up at Elsinore (yes there was a great track in elsinore)and Perris, graduated to Carlsbad and Saddleback and later to national enduros. I saw "power bombs " on Ducatis 25 yrs ago. You are a young no it all who probably can't even change a tire. I've never had any other job but building motorcycles and own a race bike shop TODAY. You talk to alot of people ...BIG DIFFERENCE. I can go around with you as long as you like and could most likely teach you some things about bikes and so-cal ,but i really doubt if you would listen.
@ tonewall we are from diffrent era's my point about pipes was about Pros @ the top of their game not me tooling around on the tracks. I missed the whole 450 2 stroke idea why not just bring back the Service Honda CR500 or KX500af? As far as changing tires any jackass with tire irons and a bucket can do that. My comments were being made regarding pro level racers thats it, The cost of this 4 stroke era is killing the avg. joe that cant afford 7k for a bike or the money it takes to rebuild it. Im not some keyboard jockey in middle america that has no clue about this sport , im sure you have been doin this and have a wealth more know how than i do. When you grow up and live with people who have raced for a living you get to know alot of people 15 years solid of SX/MX seasons on the road not to mention Bercy and other overseas experiences you get to know alot of people and in this sport it helps your pocket book out alot. No i never lined up for national or a supercross but i've been behind the on the line win my guy has won sx races and podiumed nationals. I've seen pictures and heard tons of stories about those places from a few el cajon zone guys, It was a much better era of racing back then to me it was ok to hate your competition. Terry Varner was another great engine builder makes me wonder if he would have stayed with FMF would they have a team still?
@bd ....were almost starting to agree ...it's time to stop...lol
I must say, the quality of bickering on this site has improved dramatically in recent weeks. Thumbs up to all!
I believe 1 issue right now(along with starts) with RV2 is that his leg is bothering him, more so as the series rolls on. The long series is taking a toll on it because in the real world, it is still early after such a drastic break. Hope it can hold up through the Nats with such a short break in between.
Yeah BD, a two stroke in the 350-400cc range with modern metallurgy & electronics (power-valve, injection, up-to-date ignition, etc) would flat out be a joy to ride, own, maintain, race, etc, etc, etc.
I would LOVE to have one & school all the valve & cam afficianados. Brrrrraaaaappp!!!!!
@ everyone It seems to me like their are so many 2-stroke guys that just want more power why won't the manufactures do something to give you what you want? I can honestley say i never thought of a 350 or 450 2-stroke and from the responses i see on multiple sights they would sell and be more affordble than 8k 450 before tax!
it will be awsome if he lands on a procircuit 450