by Jason Thomas
The Breakdown: Hard Pack
Wednesday, February 20, 2013 | 11:00 AM
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Texas Motor Speedway is one of the most popular stops on the NASCAR circuit. The Dallas crowd turns out in droves to see the racers high tailing it around the rock hard asphalt course at record speeds. Unfortunately, the Dallas Supercross is not run with Goodyear radials and SX riders need a better surface than Jeff Gordon does. Every year the Dallas race surface is comprised of the same blue grooved, concrete-ish dirt, and many times it makes for poor racing. Many said last year’s Dallas dirt was a little better, but in general, hard and slippery is the rule here. And when the dirt is that hard and slippery, the inside lines are basically useless. Everyone is sent looking for traction on the outsides and berms, which in turn leads to one lined race tracks. It’s a recurring theme, and someone smarter than me could maybe find a solution. It’s certainly not a rider favorite and in my opinion it makes for boring racing.
As for setup, there are a few different tricks that the paddock uses to help with a rock hard circuit. Of course, tires are a huge factor when it comes to traction. Going with a wider rear tire is a typical move but with most guys already running the 120 variety, as that isn’t always viable. A bigger tire is also heavier, and riders can notice the difference. Switching to the 90/90 or 90/100 front tire spec helps also, giving a bit more bite and also adds cushion. You’ll notice some teams run grooves in their tires. It would appear that this adds more biting edges to improve traction, but the real reason to add cuts within each knob is because it makes the tire more flexible, and the tread then follows the ground a little different, helping it hook up better.
"Every year the Dallas race surface is comprised of the same blue grooved, concrete-ish dirt, and many times it makes for poor racing." - Jason Thomas.
Simon Cudby photo
You can also drop a tooth on the rear sprocket to mellow out the power, or with the “traction control” revolution, you can literally change the power delivery mid-race. Playing with the holeshot device height can also help quite a bit. The more you pull the front end down for the start, the less traction you will receive in the rear tire. Finding a happy medium is key here, as a wheelie and wheel spin is equally detrimental.
Overall, no one really cares for these hard packed courses. They don’t have much upside and the negatives can go on for days. Worst of all, if you actually have a big crash, you might as well dive out of a high rise onto a freeway. Soft dirt gives a bit, even if marginally, but that can be all the difference between riding the next race or riding to the hospital. The racing suffers, too, as it becomes less of a race track and more of a trail, and finding viable passing lines is cumbersome. When no one can pass, the excitement wanes and that isn’t good for anyone. Supercross is billed as one of the most exciting sports in existence and tracks like the one Saturday night are not conducive to that bill. I don’t have the answers to fixing the problem but I do feel that better dirt creates better racing. Until that happens, riders will resort to the usual tricks to find traction on the stuff—it helps a little, but not enough.
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Finally someone in the media is acknowledging the shitty track and shitty soil in Dallas. The riders nor the fans should have to put up conditions that dont allow for good racing. What a boring night !!!
Boring night!? Really. Yeah the dirt sucked and the track was far from good, but still had some great racing.
Generally enjoy JT's (or any ex-racer) articles, but there was nothing in this article that we didn't already know.
We know that they use the same dirt, or source for dirt from year to year in the cities they go to. Why not truck"good" dirt to the cities that don't have a supply of good dirt, arrange to keep it somewhere during the off season (like the place where you got dirt from before), and then use it every year. I have also thought they should figure out what their 17 best track designs are, keep them and assign them to a city. Every year they could build a track unique to that city, compete with trade mark obstacles (like Laroccos leap, and gravity cavity outdoors). You could tweak the tracks as necessary but stick with the best designs instead of coming up with something "new" every week, and always use good dirt.
I'd love to see more technical obstacles like deep sand, not the 20 foot sections that they float over but the Monster Cup style that took some technique.
Also, how about a nice long set of whoops like they used to build, I remember a couple of years ago when you would actually see the top guys basically take a momentary pause and a deep breath to gain their composure before they charged them.
Generally ( but not always ) the dirt used in SX comes from a local earthworks ( commerical ) contractor that supplies shoring soil for building construction. The suggestion that "good" soil could get trucked in from a more suitable location and stored is a nice one...but contractors will be looking to use that dirt in any project in which they can sell it. In many cases the promoter pays the contrator to truck in and then truck out the dirt after the event...so what happens to that dirt during the other 51 weeks mof the years is anyone's guess. Certainly Dallas ( and some other venues ) should look into having a more suitable soil for their local event, but the reality is that not many promotoers are willing to pay for "special" dirt to be trucked in and then pay to have it watched over until the next year's event. Sad but true.
Guys - I live here 20 min from the stadium and we have AWESOME dirt all aroud here at the tracks I race on year around. I spoke with Frank the owner of FW excavating (they supply and haul the dirt each year) and Know exactly where he gets the dirt for the races and he has GREAT soil there but he told me he hauls what they spec. I am meeting with him to show him what would help and hopefully he will do better next year.
No way....JT got through an article with out humming his boy Reedy.....hahha
Where Reed whiped out last year in Dallas, that wasnt hard dirt
dallas has had basically the same dirt since 1977 but there have been many great races, 1986 when johnson and omara came thru the pack, 1987, how about 1989 when ward and stanton went back and forth all race, or 2003 when RC and reed went back and forth all race...and there were plenty more axciting races....so its not all bad.
No denying the dirt in Dallas was not an improvement over what Cali had to offer, hard and little traction, but I for one liked the track design. A few tweeks here an there plus better dirt and it would have had more passing.
I agree with most, the lap times are to low, making the heats, LCQ and Mains quickly over and leaving the fan unimpressed. Its hard to slow the riders down when they are only on the ground three times in the length of a football field. While jumping looks spectacular to casual fans, racing is done on the ground, through turns and over challenging obstacles, can we see more of those??
I like Nickola's idea of using the best designs from years past and giving each venue its signature obstacle or feature. Does not mean they cant change things up a bit, but that way, each track would have it own personality therefore giving the fans something to continually look forward to and bench race about..
I am just hopeful this weekend will be better. almost all the tracks this year have been one line.
Racer 628 - that 2003 race was awesome and I have always felt that if RC had had his bike set of closer to normal he would had won 3 of the six in a row to Reed that year. It was crazy the rebound was SO slow in the back and his bars were almost laid on the tank (the motors weren't that good either) I have never liked Honda for giving up on the cr's so quick but RC's setup was killing him
In 05 his setup was mush better-normal and he was on suzuki and he walked away from Reed all year. Decoster was a big part of getting RC back on track with set up in 05
I didnt know this...I just found a pic for the first time with RV's bike in the pits with tire warmers. Is this new? That would have been a nice bonus to your article...tsk, tsk.
Why not just buy soome good dirt, then haul it around in a pick up truck from race to race. How about a burn out box before the gate to get that rear tire hot and sticky. Maybe even just use the same tire set up the road race teams use. Just some thoughts. Just some serious sarcasm here!
@BD25- there was a time some years back when tracks had character, style and flair to them. Were each track had a little something built into them that made them different. So are they running out of ideas or just cutting back to save time and money like everyone else.
CZmark I don't know what the cause is. Whether its trying to make a track difficult for the 4 strokes or what, but sometimes, I think the harder they try to change things up, the more they mess up..Building a track is not brain surgery and does not need to be over analyzed, its supercross, motocross indoors, racing over dirt obstacles, through corners, on different surfaces, to test a riders skill. While jumps are exciting, it does not need to be one after another, the simple old adage of jump for show turn for dough still should apply..I have faith in the guys though and think they will get it right as soon as Atlanta...hoping any way...lol
RCDirtBikeAction Easy on JT, he did not want to rehash the tire warmers as Matthis talked about them in his Observations:Dallas yesterday...
I think often the track design on paper looks better than the end result....Once the track is built and guys start riding, there is nothing you can do....May put hay bails through the whoops when one line forms like the old days....
If the short lap times continue - I see no reason why they cant or shouldnt bring back the Semis..There is so much down time and we ALL want to see more racing and more action...1-9 direct transfer fomr the heat is boring....make the guys battle for those spots...Heat race 1-5 make it....Semi 1-4...
Also, as it was mentioned in a Dirt Wurx interview, the track design and layouts are final long before they even start the season....I think they said by late summer the tracks are signed off on by Feld and whomever else needs too.....What is weird to me was, in an RV interview did at one of the races, he said " i have this track at home"....that should never be....in my opinion.....so your racing on the same track you practice on daily, while the other guy do not?
Good point KillMoto- if you are going to run less lap times with less racing, then in that same time frame why not bring back the semis. That in the past had always filled a good night of racing.
I thought four strokes were the solution to traction problems. How can this possibly be??
The problem with all these tracks are the 180* turns, they need to push the berms back further to open up the inside for riders to have another option rather than EVRYONE following around the berm .
Great article JT. I didn't think the race was boring but my debate is this. Why pander to what makes the track "better?" The U.S. tracks have gone downhill for years now because somebody thinks they are making them better by making them easier. Let's get back to the track designs and set ups that the original *"stadium" races had (as it was called back then). Unadilla was the epitome of an MX track until somebody decided to change it. Part of the challenge of racing is the course it is done on. Enough with the rhythm sections already; take the rhythm out of it and make it challenging. SX is beginning to look like a 10 second a lap faster AX in my opinion (45 second lap times, ARE YOU KIDDING ME...15 MINUTE MOTOS?!!). Let AX be AX but please give us some SX tracks with a challenge, even if that means hard pack slick dirt.
The problem with the tracks is 4 strokes. All tracks become one lined when everyone can leap one jump farther than the 2 strokes used to be able to do. So there is always one fast line = jump really far out of the turn and touch the ground 3 times in the length of a football field.
Notice you don't see anymore where the riders take the inside of a corner, then roll the 1st jump, then begin their rythm? Its because you can get tons of traction and torque with the 4 stroke so taking the outside means you can jump in like 3 or 4, where as the 2 strokes couldn't get the traction to jump that far, making the outside and inside lines more closely matched.
That's my opinion anyway. I'm not a 4 stroke hater. I own one and love it. Loved my 2 stroke as well. I'm just giving my opinion as to why the supercross tracks have become more one lined
I agree with all that I think.
Here is a good piece of advice to try and I have no idea if it would work. Go back and look at the greatest battles in history IE Atlanta 1990. Copy those tracks thru out the series.. THEN we can ascertain, was it track design that led to the good racing?? Or was it simply just coindidence that night that everyone happened to be on it? Whatever the case, I will only change my mind that 4 stroke racing blows unless we get some heavy battles for the lead.
It's interesting to me that both the best articles (or responses) come from Ping and JT. Undoubtedly because they are pro racers that have experience. When Pingree said he challenges any reader of Racer X to watch 90s races and dare say today's racing is just as exciting, I wanted to pick him up and hug him!! Except now that he had a spare tire from the managerial custard donuts, I would just pat him on the back. Mike Larocco should hit the treadmill to, that dude used to be chieseled.
I'm not exciting trim myself anymore.. But I have an excuse. Wait while I think
@rick- if the Rock needs to hit the treadmill, then maybe he should drag RC with him. Other than Matthes, even RC scares the $hit out of a Krispy Kreme and the damaged he will do to them.
There are alot of good ideas on here so far, and I think we all agree on one thing, something needs to change. The races are becoming too short and the tracks are one-lined. Not trying to dog on dirt wurx or feld, because I know they're not doing it intentionally. I think it was 07 or 08 when some of the tracks were designed by the riders. We had great races. Like Larocco's at Indy or Windham's in Houston, and Pastrana's in St. Louis. I'm sure there's a lot of riders that would love the exposure and the challenge of designing tracks. Not to be totally negative though, there has been some great racing moments this year, but it could be better. I have faith that they will sort it out soon. Let's go guys. You can do it!!! PS. K-DUB has a little more time on his hands these days.
@CZ Mark Hahaha!!!! Twasn't expecting that first comment you made.That was good stuff.
@DavidL your beating a dead horse man.The last time I said that RC was not good at testing or setting up a bike I though I was going to get killed.I remember a few months back when they said RC was going to be one of the owners of the RCH team.Everyone was saying how good it was for that team to have RC help set up the bikes.
The soil thing is troubling. It is like someone (Trackbuilders) are pinching pennies with the dirt. I would swear the same crappy soil was trucked from A1 to every other track this year.
On top of that, they are not using enough of it. Dallas dirt did not look like that last year! Remember where Reed went over bars? Dirt was brown almost blackish grey and borderline loamy looking. This stuff was the same light brown Calif. hard pack looking dirt we had seen for 6 previous rounds.
I understand trickle down effect and if Feld and everyone else is taking a bigger piece of a smaller pie, that leaves a track builder to maximize profits where he can.
HOWEVER, PLEASE, PLEASE don't skimp on the tracks, And while your at it, why don't you find about 10 to 12 seconds per lap to add to the remainder of the races!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ David L Yes there is a lot of goos soil/dirt around here in the Dallas area. I would like to see them haul the dirt from the Tyler TX track here it would be both hard pack and also lots of tracksion and yes theat was one of my favorite tracks. . Gee could they just mix some sawdust into the dirt that shoud work.
I just want the races longer, it is no wonder why the racers in the USA are getting soft and lost last year at the trophe dee, gotta make harder tracks. Then everyone would complain also!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As Always BD25 make good comments also. And at CZmark If I remember people complained about Carlsbad being so hard packed also? That is one track I wish I had raced at, miss hose big downhils!
That Texas red clay makes great bricks.but not supercross tracks. Sticks to your boots pretty well too. yeee haaaw
Fred lol I agree - I was a huge RC fan and I Hated his set-up until 2005 he he had to get it better or lose.
RED 54 you are dead on- they had totally different dirt there last year and it was better- it was still a short track though in 11 the laptimes were all over 50 seconds.
I think the y
Tracks are being built to offer lots of airtime and to not break down much. As someone else said, watch Atlanta 1990 or Anaheim 1986 not only to see great racing, but compare tracks. They had a few big jumps, but there was so much going on and oh wait, where were the rhythm sections?! The whoops in ATL were an obstacle to negotiate, not blitz through. The speeds were slower, the dirt softer, and the racing better. A good point is that the harder dirt is going to hurt worse when you go down. I don't know what anyone was watching Saturday if they saw great racing, as all I saw was a bunch of guys following the guys in front of them around.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pDniLM2bvHE
Check out this Texas race!! Awesome track
This was the best message board conversation EVER! If the " powers that be" read this they will get a lot of good suggestions from the people that matter, the fans!
How about the easiest free changes out there:
Go to 20 minutes (or longer) plus two laps.
Have some corners with thicker dirt (2 feet maybe?), loose and tilled, with no outside berm, and let ruts develop. Block the inside line in practice with a hay bale so outside ruts develop first.
How about a peristyle like the old A2 and Pontiac tracks used to have, where the track goes into the stands (not free, broke my own rule).
Not sure how to fix the "everyone can do every jump the same" issue.
At least the first two things could be done really easily, and minimize the "holeshot and block" approach.
@ride4ever.....nailed it. Imagination.....more Sand and more turns...put a damn tabletop in middle of of a giant whoop section..lol over-under corkscrew..lol...(just kiddin').... ANYTHING that isn't cookie cutter...do something different ANYTHING......!!!!! Use some imagination. please.
http://youtu.be/SAxG16ycNQg
davidl - nailed it on the dirt situation. Got the truth straight from someone Dirt Wurx contracted with. The contractor said he brought in what was spec'd. Not surprisingly, this is the same stuff they have spec'd at every track so far this year. It's no coincidence this track was hardpack. That's how Dirt Wurx wants it.